National Defence Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I agree with you. Certainly, I know how important bringing this bill here is, so I want to say thank you for this. I know you mean well by saying you're looking forward to seeing this bill come to this committee so that we can advance it and make it even stronger, so I appreciate this.

I want to take you back to the conversation we had about 2% and the DPU, but we also tend to forget, as do, maybe, some of our partners and our allies, the strong commitment on NORAD.

As you said, we know, unfortunately, that some members in the House of Commons will vote against this particular estimate in the budget, which has a direct impact on providing the operational readiness you mentioned.

Could you share some thoughts about why it is so important that we pass this budget as soon as possible?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

In the letter the 23 senators wrote to the Prime Minister last week, I noted one thing they did not acknowledge but that I think is important. I was down in Washington two weeks ago, where I met with the Secretary of Defense and a number of other legislators. When we talked about Canada's new investment in defence, I think they were very encouraged by it. In particular—and I don't like to quote him as he speaks well for himself—the commander of NORAD has talked a lot, and very publicly, about the nearly $40 billion Canada is investing in NORAD modernization and the acquisition of new capabilities and new capital equipment as part of that. Frankly, with the introduction of our new defence policy, again, he was very supportive and even complimentary of the work we are doing.

It's important as well that we acknowledge in our own defence policy update that we're doing a great deal. We have more to do and we're going to do more, but when you're spending taxpayer dollars, you have to do it right and do it well, and that means giving the Canadian Armed Forces the opportunity and the time to define their requirements and work through our rigorous but necessary procurement processes to get the best value for Canadian tax dollars.

As I said, we're increasing our defence spending by 27% next year. It's going to be really challenging for us to spend that money well, but we're absolutely committed to doing it.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Certainly, in case I don't have another chance, I also would like to thank Deputy Minister Matthews for being so available to us in this committee.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mrs. Lalonde.

Ms. Michaud, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, you spoke a few times about investments that will be made soon. However, in September 2023, your government announced fairly significant budget cuts. At the time, you said that it wouldn't necessarily have any impact on operational capabilities, but the Chief of the Defence Staff said that it would be impossible to reduce the defence budget by nearly $1 billion without there being consequences. In addition, you announced investments as part of your new policy.

So there seems to be conflicting information, which observers have noted, starting with the Chief of the Defence Staff himself. He said he was having trouble grappling the department's contradictory orders. Given this confusion, one might think the department lacks vision.

Can you reassure the forces and tell them clearly what the situation is? Are we heading toward budget cuts for the next two years, or are we making more investments for the future?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

First of all, I stand by my statement. We're increasing defence spending next year over this year by 27%, and that includes the Treasury Board's refocusing on spending.

One of the things that I think are absolutely incumbent upon us when we're spending Canadian taxpayer dollars is our responsibility to make sure that we're spending their dollars well and to look and make sure that we're producing real value for every dollar we invest.

It is entirely appropriate for the entire public service and every bureaucracy to look at how they're spending money, particularly on things like executive travel, or consultant services, or even some professional services. I say “some” because some of them are absolutely essential to our members and our capabilities. We are, in the net, increasing our defence spending by 27%. By the way, that refocusing of spending is not supposed to be easy; it's hard. That's why we do it, because it's hard and it's necessary.

There have certainly been challenges. The military and the Department of National Defence have been doing things a certain way for a long time, and it's the job just to go back and check to make sure we're producing real value for every dollar we invest in defence. We're doing that job, and at the same time we're very significantly increasing the amount of money that will be made available to them to get the job done.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Madame Michaud.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have two and a half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, the last time you appeared here, we talked briefly about the investment in Arctic infrastructure for dual-use programs and projects. We heard directly from General Wayne Eyre, who called his time being stuck in Cambridge Bay as another war story.

Today, I've just brought and signed a letter with my colleague, NDP MP for Nunavut, Lori Idlout. In Cambridge Bay they need their runway paved and expanded to tackle their serious food crisis and to have robust access to health care.

I would like to give you that letter today, but I would like to ask you to commit to reading it and consider designating Cambridge Bay as a northern operational support hub.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

First of all, I'll absolutely commit to reading it.

I was in Nunavut three weeks ago, and I met with all the northern premiers; I was in Iqaluit. We had conversations about multi-use infrastructure investments in the north, and I think the needs of the north are very obvious and clear to us all.

With respect to Cambridge Bay, in terms of the money for defence, there are other investments that also need to be made in infrastructure. Some of it is transportation and some of it is with Northern Affairs. In terms of the investments that we need to make from the defence standpoint, first of all, I have to work with the northern territories but also with indigenous leadership in the north to determine the best place for us to put our assets in order to do the job of defending the north.

At the same time, I think there's an extraordinary opportunity, which you highlight, to actually increase our investment in infrastructure that will be mutually beneficial to the people who live in those communities. An airplane runway, for example, can also be used to bring in other transported goods or medical evacuations. There's a whole bunch of mutually beneficial things that we can do that will be aligned.

I'll happily read the letter, and I will also undertake to continue to work with the territorial governments, with northern communities, with northern representatives and, in particular, with indigenous communities, because it's their land. We benefit by consultation with them, and we'll work really closely with them. I invite you and your colleague to continue to advocate around that as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I actually have 15 seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I know you have 15 seconds.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

You've given time to other members to expand.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Well, I am trying to get back on track. Otherwise, we won't get through this round.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

At my expense.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Do your 15 seconds.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

Canada had the worst wildfire season on record last year. Experts have predicted that this year is worse. It actually has never stopped.

The DPU didn't acknowledge Operation Lentus and the importance of that. Considering that we're facing those climate catastrophes, fuelled by inaction on climate change, why do you think the status quo was enough?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, Ms. Mathyssen's 15 seconds expired a while back.

We'll move on to Mr. Allison.

You have five minutes, please.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

[Inaudible—Editor] as we get the opportunity, we'll try to pick that up later.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you very much for being here. I have a question for you.

Lieutenant-General Andrew Leslie has talked about how unprepared we are. As a former chief of staff for NATO, for our allies and for the work he's done, even as an elected member in your party, I would like to say his one comment here, and I'd like to get your response to it: “The current prime minister of Canada is not serious about defence. Full stop.”

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

First of all, I have a great deal of respect for Andy. He's a friend of mine. We've been friends and colleagues for a long time. I have respect for his opinion, but respectfully, I would disagree with him on that. The Prime Minister has I think demonstrated a remarkable seriousness on defence.

During his time as Prime Minister, we have more than doubled defence spending, and we've just approved a defence policy that will in fact triple our defence spending over the term of its five years, but even beyond that, the Prime Minister has also made it clear that we still need to do more—

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Okay. Thanks.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

—and we're going to do more with respect to integrated air missile defence, submarines, etc.

I would just point that out to my very good friend and respected colleague, Andy Leslie: Deeds speak, and the Prime Minister's deeds, I think, speak well.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

I think his experience as lieutenant-general actually matters a lot in terms of what he's able to bring to the table. He also said that a large number of the cabinet ministers are not serious about defence either. I'll leave those statements for now, but one of the things he's challenged with is the whole issue of preparedness. A lot of my colleagues have talked about this.

He talks about the Arctic. We've had people in here to talk about the Arctic. He said:

Just in terms of numbers, there's about 22,000 professional men and women in the U.S. Armed Forces based in the Arctic, mainly in Alaska. There's about 30,000 to 35,000 Russian armed forces based in the Arctic. Canada has about 300 people.

We talk about preparation. What's your response to our Arctic, which is obviously a very important area for us in terms of—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I have really good news, Dean. Go and read our new defence policy update, “Our North, Strong and Free”. That's our response to the Arctic. It talks about the necessity of investing in and persistently deploying Canadian Armed Forces members there. We've talked a lot about NORAD modernization, but now also, in the DPU, about the really important focus that we have to have in defending the continent and defending our country, particularly from emerging threats. In the first part of that document.... Like I said, I would invite you to take a look at it.

I don't disagree, by the way. The fact that our ships are nearly 40 years old, that some of the planes our air force has been flying in are 40 years old.... Those things really demonstrate, I think, generations of ill-preparedness, but our response to that is that we're investing in new fighter planes. We're investing in new supply ships. We're investing in new combat support ships. We're going to be investing in new submarines, and we're putting new capabilities in the north.