National Defence Committee on Sept. 17th, 2024

[H.E. Yuliya Kovaliv]

Thank you.

Indeed, I would like to thank you for the robust military support and, as I mentioned, for the approach that we are building together—the capabilities.

If we're talking about the fighter jet capability, Canada is helping us train Ukrainian pilots. It's not only that the other partners are providing us F-16 fighter jets, but we also need to have well-trained pilots who can effectively operate them.

When it comes to the armoured vehicles coalition, it's not only the armoured vehicles, but there's this whole supply chain. There are many other examples.

One other thing I want to mention, and want to thank you for in the presence of generals here, is the training program Unifier. It started back in 2015. When the war started, we had over 30,000 Ukrainian men and women trained by Canadian trainers through the Unifier program. Now, the figures are much bigger. We are coming close to the 40,000.

I think the generals can probably also say that it's not only one-sided training. It's really the exchange of experience. It's really a win-win for both our armed forces and the members of the Canadian Armed Forces.

I always have the privilege of meeting the teams that are coming on a rotation for the six months from Unifier. I'm always really touched by how they feel proud of being a part of the Unifier program, how this exchange...and how the people stay connected. We are also building these relations among the people who are physically protecting us—our soldiers.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you so much.

You also spoke in your opening remarks about how long-range weaponry would be helpful at this stage and about Ukraine's ability to use that into Russia. I know that Major-Generals Smith and Ritchie also spoke to this a little bit earlier, but you were cut off a little short. I know that you may want to finish the thought that you had started earlier.

I'll start with Ambassador Kovaliv to explain why this would be beneficial at this stage.

[H.E. Yuliya Kovaliv]

Thank you.

As I've said, you can't protect, for example, as we saw a few months ago near Vovchansk in Kharkiv, when Russia was trying to advance from the northeast 30 kilometres to the Russian border. If we are not able to strike on Russian territory, it's very hard to protect especially those big cities that are closer to the Russian border, because the legitimate target is the Russian military depots, all the logistics that they are using and the places where Russia launches their missiles, including ballistic missiles.

So there are two ways: to significantly increase air defence and to help us to draw down missiles and drones, including on at least the western border. We have seen examples of Russian drones falling down onto the territory of NATO members and we saw the unity and how this can be successfully intercepted in the Middle East. We crucially need both of these decisions by our allies.

[MGen Robert Ritchie]

Thanks for the question, Mr. Chair.

Indeed it stretches the battlefield and the complexion of the conflict and it exposes more vulnerable second- and third-echelon forces of the Russian military apparatus that are operating in depth. We certainly recognize the inherent benefits of such a capability, and that's why we're excited to, under Canada's new ONSAF policy, also get to explore this capability for the Canadian Armed Forces.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That was right on five minutes, with 2.5 seconds remaining.

The floor is yours, Ms. Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My question is twofold. It's for both the ambassador and the major-generals.

I would like to know to what extent Ukrainian civilians are mobilized to go to the front at this time. Is it really a state of total war or would it still be possible to mobilize civilians by providing, for example, more logistical support, replacing them with international forces or more medical support, among other things?

If it were possible to mobilize more civilians, could we, on our side, train more recruits at the Lydd training camp, for example, if the influx of recruits increased?

[H.E. Yuliya Kovaliv]

Thank you.

Mobilization in Ukraine is coming. It's in place. We've digitalized a lot of the services, so now the data of all men of conscription age is registered and we know them, but on the military side, we don't need all the men of that age to be sent directly to the front line because there is also critical infrastructure, defence production and the economy, and the country needs to continue to live, and the businesses need to continue to work.

But there is one more reality. We don't have enough equipment, so there is no need to send the people who are untrained and unequipped to the front line. Our strategy is not what Russia is doing, sending the people who were conscripted just two or three weeks ago as what is being called kind of, unfortunately, meat to be killed on the front line. That's why there's so much value in all the training programs we have. The people are going to obligatory training, but then comes the need for equipment. If we are talking about the armoured vehicles or the other types of equipment we need to equip brigades, that's where timing is essential. Imagine if today we had a plan to equip several big brigades, but there was no equipment.

[MGen Robert Ritchie]

Mr. Chair, if I might just add something, I had the privilege to be deployed to Wiesbaden in January and February of 2022 on the eve of the invasion and then for the next six months, and it was utterly inspiring to watch the Ukrainian population we've spoken to of all ages rallying together to present a unified front. Farmers were towing abandoned Russian vehicles, and families were throwing Molotov cocktails at invading Russians. It was inspiring for the alliance to watch this solidarity.

If I may just speak to the ambassador's comment, one of the most successful programs has been the program to train the trainers. You spoke about LID and the ability to train recruits. Working together, we have trained 173 trainers, who are now training their own recruits. To the ambassador's earlier point, we're learning as much as we are teaching. It is a very reciprocal relationship as we're learning from war-hardened soldiers of Ukraine.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have five minutes, Ms. Mathyssen.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

Ambassador, I asked the major-generals earlier about the 20,000 children that have been abducted by Russia. I wrote to the Minister of Foreign Affairs on behalf of the Ukrainian council's London chapter, but we haven't heard back yet, unfortunately.

Can you tell us how Canada can increase more diplomatic pressure on Russia and do our part to help Ukraine return these children to their homes?

[H.E. Yuliya Kovaliv]

Thank you.

Part of the weapons of war unfortunately are the children. They are the most vulnerable.

We have documented over 19,000 cases of Ukrainian children who have been forcefully deported to Russia. Some of them already have been illegally adopted by Russian families. Unfortunately, with some of them, 16-year-old boys, we have evidence that they have been sent to the military camps for training, and there is a big risk that Russia will try to send them to the front lines. We are working together with the other partners, and I would like to stress the big role Qatar is playing to help us to return the children.

Unfortunately, only a little more than 600 Ukrainian children have been brought back. In order to enforce diplomatic pressure and awareness, together with Canada, we call on the international coalition to return the Ukrainian children. We now have 40 countries from around the world who have joined the coalition, and this number will be growing.

At the end of October, here in Canada—and we are thankful to Global Affairs Canada and Minister Joly—we will have a conference. Part of that agenda will be on our international efforts to bring the Ukrainian children back and to support and coordinate our diplomatic efforts. Canada is also supporting us to help those children who we have managed to bring back to Ukraine to rehabilitate them. These children have suffered a lot, including their mental health, with the need for them to resettle. We greatly value this.

This is one of the most horrific crimes, because it involves those who are the most vulnerable. This is part of the Russian breach of international law. These crimes against children are ones that are highly punished. That is why the global arrest warrant for Putin is based on the crimes against Ukrainian children.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Don Stewart, welcome to the committee.

You have five minutes, please.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ambassador Kovaliv, Major-General Smith and Major-General Ritchie, thank you for your service.

I spent some time with the Ontario Regiment in the 1980s, and more recently, over the last six years, as honorary colonel with the 2 Intelligence Company in Toronto. During training nights we would often talk about drones and their importance to the safety of our troops and the execution of our strategy.

I'm curious about the activities of CAF and implanting urgently any of these drones as small surveillance or attack drones that can be operated in conjunction with our ground forces.

[MGen Robert Ritchie]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

Drones have been a game-changer, like a couple of other capabilities on the battlefield and ones that we're monitoring carefully. We are learning from Ukrainian partners in the fight with Russia. We're also working as we look to procure these capabilities going forward through our recent ONSAF policy, because there is so much opportunity the drone capability presents, and we think it will be evolutionary in the coming years.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Do we have plans to have those with our troops in Latvia?

[MGen Robert Ritchie]

What I can speak to, Mr. Chair, is that we're upskilling the brigade to 3,000 persistent troops deployed with additional capabilities available to deploy from Canada in the form of an additional battalion. The battle group will be under the brigade. It will be Canadian-led with 14 countries. Amongst the coalition of the 14 countries, I do believe we have drone capability. This is something that the Canadian Armed Forces is interested in and we are looking to expand our capability on this going forward.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I understand that in the battalion.... I'm sorry, in the brigade, there will be a significant number of reservists staffing that brigade, and that leads me to wonder about training in advance of deployment. Are we going to have soldiers who arrive trained and ready to execute our mission in Latvia?

[MGen Robert Ritchie]

Thanks very much for that question, Mr. Chair.

Obviously the professional preparation of soldiers for conflict and for service in NATO is top of mind. What we're trying to do is strike the balance between high-caliber training and minimizing the time away from home, in terms of quality of life before they deploy, because we have had challenges in past years when soldiers may deploy for multiple months before they then go away for six- to nine-month deployments. What we're finding now is the opportunity to conduct the validation training forward in Adazi, and the next brigade validation will be during the period 4 to 14 November, where we'll be able to deliver that high-caliber training forward in Latvia.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Back in March 2022, we had been pushing the Liberal government to provide our surplus LAV IIs to send them to Ukraine. We had some that were serviceable, but we had, I think, 62 that were in repairable condition, but were deemed surplus, but they would take 220 days to fix. That was in June 2022. I'm wondering if those were ever repaired and sent to Ukraine.

[MGen Gregory Smith]

Mr. Chair, I can't speak to those specific statistics. That being said, we're working actively with Ukraine. If they're asking for hulks—M113s, LAV IIs, as you said—we're moving them as quickly as we can. Obviously, Armatec came up and refurbishment of those, and we're continuing to work through that to achieve a contract as quickly as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Since you were not able to answer the question specifically about the refurbishment of the 62 LAV IIs. I understand that it's not necessarily in your own notes, but if you could undertake to the respond to the committee, that would be helpful.

[MGen Gregory Smith]

We'll take that on notice, Chair.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

The last thing I would ask you is this. Does our current battle group in Latvia possess the sufficient capabilities to defend against the current state of the Russian military?

[MGen Robert Ritchie]

Thanks for that question, Mr. Chair.

Right now, that brigade is formidable. It has infantry, armour, artillery, tactical helicopters that just recently deployed from the Royal Canadian Air Force, medical logistics and sustainment. Combat engineers are deploying in 2025. This is Canadian-led, multinational, 14 countries, and those other troop-contributing nations bring incredible capability as well.

That said, we are mindful of the changing threats, and we're looking to procure new capability, through new technology in the new policy that we have, to be able to ensure that our forward-leaning forces are successful going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Powlowski, you have the final five minutes.