National Defence Committee on Sept. 17th, 2024

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Dobry den, Ambassador.

You talked about the importance of assistance in air defence. When there was a conflict in Syria that the United States was involved in, Western forces were willing to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria. I think after the initial attack in 2022, Ukraine was asking for support in enforcing a no-fly zone over Ukraine. Is Ukraine still formally asking for that support?

[H.E. Yuliya Kovaliv]

Ukraine is asking for many of the different instruments to protect the sky, including the air defence system itself and the missiles for them, including our partners to help us to draw down the missiles and drones, including in the western border, and including the preventing of those strikes, so there are different....

We have also a very big and serious pending issue, which is the Russian occupation of the biggest civilian nuclear plant—6 gigawatts—the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, which, since the spring 2022, is under Russian occupation. It poses a huge risk not only to Ukraine, but also to all of the surrounding countries. The missiles and drones are flying very close in the vicinity of the reactors themselves, which is a huge risk for millions of people.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

This is a question for both the generals and the ambassador.

I think in 2022, when the issue of a no-fly zone came up, the response from the West was that this would be very problematic. It would possibly result in global warfare in case Western NATO forces were to shoot down Russian planes flying over Ukraine.

Right now, given the advances in the Ukrainian army with surface-to-air missiles with Patriot missile systems, are there any Russian planes flying over Ukrainian airspace? If there are no longer Russian airplanes or helicopters flying over presently occupied Ukrainian airspace, has the situation not changed materially?

Perhaps there would be more of an argument for NATO enforcing a no-fly zone, which would be shooting down drones and missiles, so Russians wouldn't be getting killed in their planes over Ukraine. Is it a concept that we ought to be reconsidering? Is NATO taking an active role in supporting a no-fly zone over Ukraine?

[MGen Gregory Smith]

Chair, I'll start.

You have the disadvantage of having a bunch of army guys up here, and we'll do our best.

That's a military operation, and Ukraine is a big country. It's over 600,000 square kilometres. To protect that, you would need to position forces right inside Ukraine. It's not just having a fighter. Now you have an airbase, and you have to protect the airbase. You have to supply the airbase, and it's not just simply setting up a fighter, but how do you defeat enemy air defences? This is a full-up operation. NATO would become engaged in that conflict.

We are supporting Ukraine the best we can. I'd like to go back to the amount of air defence, including Canada's, that is trying to supply Ukraine to have them do the job. Then more recently, there's the $389 million announced for fighter lead-in training and further training to enable the Ukrainians to win the war themselves.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Ambassador, in my remaining time, I give the floor to you as an opportunity to say what you would like to say to the Canadian people and to the Canadian government.

[H.E. Yuliya Kovaliv]

Thank you.

There were 369 Russian airplanes flying that have been destroyed. Indeed, the protection of the sky is a huge issue, both for the military and civilians.

The honourable member Don Stewart was talking about drones. Drones and the drones that are using AI are now a game-changer. It's not the conventional war that you saw before. It's also war on technology, the drones and electronic warfare.

We've already created one of the first special parts of the forces that is called unmanned forces. We are actively using different types of drones: air drones, sea drones, or unmanned vehicles on the front line. Ukraine is now on the edge of this technological development. By the end of this year, we will be procuring for the Ukrainian armed forces one million drones of different types: small ones, long range, short range and surveillance drones. We are doing it because this is partly substituting for the lack of artillery and artillery shells. There are some parts of the front line that are controlled only by drones. Sometimes small drones that cost several thousand dollars can destroy a tank or an armoured vehicle. It is a new type of war.

What we also are offering and working with allies and with Canada on, and we see on our side a big potential, is co-operation in drone production. Today, Ukraine is a testing ground not only for drones but also for their usage against the strong Russian electronic warfare. It's not only to have a good drone. You need this drone to be able to fly, and it needs to withstand your enemy's electronic warfare. This is a big defence technology, a new era in the military where we believe we are on the front line, and we are ready to share our experience. We also we want to welcome more co-operation on this production so we can be leading together on this stage.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That brings our time together to an end.

I want to thank all members and our witnesses for their co-operation in parliamentary circumstances, which are occasionally difficult. Particularly, I want to thank Generals Ritchie and Smith for their patience and for staying much longer than they were scheduled.

Ambassador Kovaliv, it's always great to see you. We appreciate your ability to give us the view from Ukraine on this conflict.

With that, colleagues, we will adjourn. We will carry on with the threat briefing next Thursday morning. Our clerk has promised to cook a special breakfast for us.

With that, this meeting adjourned.