National Defence Committee on Sept. 17th, 2024

[MGen Gregory Smith]

We receive the money, we have access to that money, and then we provide advice to the minister. There are a lot of options. We have to talk to our Ukrainian allies to find out what they want. Then we'll be able to act. It's important to co‑operate.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

You already talked about this a bit with Mr. Powlowski, but I would like to hear you talk about the quantitative impact that long-range attacks could have on Russian territory. We have an idea of what that represents, but what impact could it have on the course of the war or the possibility of Ukraine regaining control, in a way?

[MGen Robert Ritchie]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for her question.

There is a risk that this will increase the conflict horizontally or vertically. If the Russians don't achieve their objectives, I think they'll consider other options. When it comes to these weapons, I believe that our allies are making very specific decisions to ensure the consequences of their decisions.

Canada and NATO are certainly aware of that by using these longer-range weapons.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Ms. Mathyssen, you have six minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both major-generals for appearing today.

I've had several meetings with incredible people in my community, specifically from the London chapter of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress. They have signified to me the importance of the identities of the 20,000 children who have been abducted by Russia. Obviously, many human rights organizations are fearing that this number is actually higher. Russia has abducted the children. They've put them into re-education camps. They've forced them to accept Russian passports. They've subjected these children to abuse and the denial of medical treatment.

International law is clear, and, of course, the House passed a motion stating that Putin is committing a genocide and must be held responsible and accountable by the rules of the International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice.

Can you update the committee on Canada's intelligence on these children and how we're helping the Ukrainians return the children to their homes?

[MGen Robert Ritchie]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

We are very conscious that there are four regions, specifically Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, that are currently in Russian possession, and certainly we've been tracking the number of children as well as the number of killed and wounded. We are also of the opinion, alongside our allies, that the Russians are committing contraventions of the law of armed conflict in their targeting. We are working with like-minded allies, once areas are liberated, to reunite members with their proper Ukrainian families.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

You had also mentioned earlier in your testimony the targeting of civilian infrastructure, making it very difficult, of course, for the upcoming winter. That civilian infrastructure is also.... Putin is intentionally targeting hospitals, as we understand. It's mass punishment to pressure Ukrainians to fall and to pressure them into their demands. They're weaponizing human suffering. They're supporting those illegal annexations, the occupation of the Donbass.

Canadians are very proud of our work in standing up for international law and for everything we can do to stop Putin's crimes. Can you update the committee on how we're supporting the resilience of Ukraine's infrastructure to ensure adequate access to things like food aid during these particularly difficult times on that infrastructure-specific target?

[MGen Robert Ritchie]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

I'll speak from a Defence perspective of that infrastructure and then see if my colleague has any additional comments about the food security. We are attentive to the prioritized needs of the Ukrainians, in terms of their own critical infrastructure and, as the coalition works to source in-demand air defence systems, to prioritize that for the infrastructure Ukraine has identified.

[MGen Gregory Smith]

Mr. Chair, if I could just double down, obviously, we get to see it on the news every day, and we look with our own intelligence at what the impact is on the infrastructure that was identified. I'll double down with what my colleague said: We've provided a large amount of money, over $70 million, to work with different allies to try to get what's called the immediate action on air defence. It allowed us to work with allies to get anti-aircraft missiles in the hands of the Ukrainians as quickly as possible. That's an example of a clear need from Ukraine, and we got it to them as fast as we could.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

That upholding of international law against Putin's targeting of children, of civilians and infrastructure, is effective. We have to stand up to that, of course, and I know this is the case across all parties. We support international law; that's key. The ICC and the ICJ are working to investigate Putin and to hold him accountable. However, this isn't the only crisis that we've seen across the world.

This summer, I've heard from many Palestinian Canadians who are disgusted that the government, and the Conservatives as well, refuse to recognize the ongoing genocide in Gaza. Many of those civilians, hospitals and children are being targeted.

How can the Canadian government stand strong in terms of that upholding of international law if we don't do it consistently?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That question is important, but it is possibly beyond the remit of these particular generals. You're welcome to answer if you wish, but that's not why you were invited.

[MGen Gregory Smith]

Let me just take a quick jab at it because obviously international law, humanitarian law and the law of armed conflict remain extremely important to us. I'll just identify, particularly as we train Ukrainians in the UK right now and elsewhere, that is one of the core things we teach.

I would say that the Ukrainians understand the core risk that would arise if something were to occur that's not lawful on the battlefield. They're sensitive to that. We teach them the international law of conflict, law of armed conflict, and we talk about the risks of it. It's very important to the Ukrainians as well.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Actually, you took some of my time, Mr. Chair, so I'd love to have that extra 30 seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Well, I intervened, so thank you.

At this point, I'm going to ask the ambassador to make her statement. Then, we'll see where that leaves us on the clock.

Welcome, Ambassador, to the committee. You've been to this committee before, and we appreciate your making yourself available. We look forward to your opening statement.

[Her Excellency Yuliya Kovaliv, Ambassador of Ukraine to Canada]

Thank you.

Honourable Chair and honourable members of the committee, thank you for this opportunity to provide you with a briefing on the situation in Ukraine as we continue to fight.

First of all, I would like to thank you for the steadfast support of Canada, the Canadian Parliament, government and the people of Canada for Ukraine and our fight against the illegal and brutal Russian invasion. Your strong standing is highly valued as we continue to fight the biggest conventional war on the European continent since the Second World War. The implications of Russian aggression against Ukraine have impacts far beyond the European continent, as the war challenges the core concept of international rule-based order, respect for security and sovereignty of countries around the world.

Let me brief you on the situation in Ukraine. The situation on the front line is challenging. Despite Russian attempts to move forward and the lack of ammunition and equipment of the Ukrainian armed forces, we managed to stabilize the situation on the front within the past week, particularly in the Donetsk direction. Now most fighting is taking place in the vicinity of Pokrovsk and Kurakhove, which are part of Ukraine.

The Russians have an advantage in their air power and manpower, but they are suffering significant losses. According to our general staff, as of September 16, since the start of the full-scale invasion, Russia's irreplaceable losses of manpower are over 634,000 soldiers, including those wounded and killed. Russia has faced, significantly, the loss of equipment: over 8,000 tanks, 369 aircraft, over 300 helicopters, 28 warships and one submarine.

Ukraine has managed to destroy and disable nearly 33% of the Russian Black Sea fleet, and we managed to do it not only because of the bravery of the people but also because of the unity and support the allies—Canada being one of the closest allies—have provided to us.

Russian troops also brutally violate the chemical weapons convention by using gas grenades and other explosive devices equipped with irritant substances.

Russia continues to accumulate troops and demonstrate commitment to the war of attrition, hoping to get some gains with their still considerable resources, the war fatigue and nuclear blackmail—all of this stuff that we have been seeing for more than two and a half years.

The Russian dictator, Putin, on September 16 signed a decree increasing the manpower of the Russian army, adding 180,000 new conscripts to the Russian army.

Russia has taken all ammunition from Belarus and uses artillery shells and ballistic missiles from North Korea, as well as Iranian drones. North Korea has already supplied the aggressor with at least 10,000 shipping containers that could hold as many as 4.8 million artillery shells and up to 50 ballistic missiles, which the Kremlin has been using against Ukraine. We see these acts of evil becoming closer, stronger and a big challenge to our democracies.

While not having strategic success on the battlefield, Russia seeks to destroy everything it can capture and continues to terrorize Ukraine. Russia destroyed or damaged within the last six months over nine gigawatts of power capacity throughout Ukraine—power grids and power generation—so that today, electricity is supplied to Ukrainian people with huge power outages, and people do not have full access to electricity or a water supply. That was what Russia's strategy has been for a few winters. Now we are coming to winter, and it will be one of the hardest ones.

Another challenge is Russian missile attacks, including the ballistic missiles Russia is using against civilian objects. You all saw the horror in June of the attack over Okhmatdyt, the biggest children's hospital in Ukraine. It's like SickKids that you have in Canada. A Russian ballistic missile destroyed the campus of the clinic, but then Pokrovsk followed, with 55 people being killed by one ballistic missile. It flies in a few minutes to Lviv, Kharkiv and other cities.

The UN human rights monitoring mission in Ukraine confirms that Russian armed forces attacks have caused extensive civilian harm. Since only August 26, there has been a report of 64 civilians killed and 399 injured.

The high casualty numbers follow a sharp increase in civilian deaths and injuries over the summer due to these Russian terrorist attacks over the whole territory of Ukraine.

There are two specific decisions that our partners can make to help us. First is giving us the possibility of using long-range strikes on legitimate military targets on Russian territory—first of all, where they launch all of these missile attacks from—because without that and without having our sky protected, the death toll of civilians and the destruction of civilian buildings and infrastructure will, unfortunately, increase; and also, our partners' agreeing to use their air defence capabilities to shut down missiles and drones closer to our neighbours' and allies' airspace. Our allies already showed unity in taking down rockets and drones over the Middle East, and it's right to demonstrate such unity in Ukraine. These missiles and drones are flying over not only Ukraine but there were also a few cases when they were flying over the territory of our neighbours. As President Zelenskyy said, “Belarus is taking the lead in shooting down Russian drones.”

We are very grateful for the position taken by the Canadian government for there to be no restrictions on the use of western weapons and using long-range weapons in Russian territory for legitimate military targets.

Also, just to finish, there's one more thing that is very important. Last but not least, I draw your attention today to another big challenge, which is Russian disinformation. Disinformation campaigns are targeting human will and, from a military perspective, as General Eyre rightly said just recently, if that will is affected before the first shot is fired, there is winning even before fighting. The key goal of Russian propaganda campaigns is to challenge our democracies, to spread chaos and to decrease western support for Ukraine. It is well-funded, including by covert and non-covert operations, and we need to take this danger altogether very seriously.

Thank you. I'm ready for your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ambassador.

If we go until 6:00 we can get in two full rounds, a six-minute round and a five-minute round. Is that agreeable?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We appreciate Generals Ritchie and Smith staying and answering....

With that, Mr. Bezan, you have six minutes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you Mr. Chair.

Ambassador, it's great to see you back here.

Generals, thanks for attending and for extending your time. As you know, we had votes and a tribute in the House for one of our former colleagues. A number of us here had a chance to serve with the member and wanted to hear the tributes.

Ambassador, I direct most of my questions to you. First of all, I express our gratitude to all of the brave women and men serving in the Ukrainian armed forces, who are standing in the face of Russian aggression, and to all of the brave civilians for the amazing work they do in supporting the war effort in Ukraine and standing up for democracy, human rights and the rule of law.

As Conservatives, as you know, we support Ukraine. We'll always support Ukraine, and we'll continue to do so going forward, in every way that we possibly can.

You mentioned disinformation. Were you shocked to see the Russian propaganda film Russians at War, which was funded with Canadian taxpayer money through the Canada Media Fund, which is an arm of the Canadian government?

[H.E. Yuliya Kovaliv]

Thank you.

I think the position of Ukraine was very clear to me, our embassy, our government, our Ministry of Foreign Affairs. We were shocked that the TIFF film festival was providing a place for the film, which is a part of the Russian propaganda campaign. There are numerous reports by the UN Human Rights Council and other international organizations that are present in Ukraine. You all saw this, including many of the independent Canadian journalists who were visiting Ukraine—we opened the borders for them. We all were witnessing horrific war crimes that the Russian soldiers committed in Bucha, Irpin, Izium—the massive graves and their use of sexual violence as a weapon, and the killing civilians. Just today, the Ukrainian human rights commissioner published the proven information of how Russian soldiers killed a prisoner of war with a sword—the horrible video. This is really what Russian soldiers are doing in Ukraine.

I think showing a one-sided film is an attempt to whitewash Russian war crimes. That's what Russia and the Russian campaign have been doing by trying to blur the lines. It's very dangerous, because that's how propaganda works. We are really disappointed with the decision of TIFF to show this film. It's a big wound for those hundreds of civilians who have been killed and thousands of their families who have lost their loved ones by the cruelty and barbarity of the Russian soldiers. I don't want to say it's Russia; it's Russian soldiers, because there is a physical person who pushed the button for the missile to fly into the biggest kids' hospital. There is the Russian soldier who makes the decision to kill those civilians. We need to recognize that and be very clear on how we name it. It's not Russia, as the collective thing. Every time we, as human beings, have a choice to do it or not. We saw what the Russian soldiers have been doing in Ukraine.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Do you believe the Government of Canada should demand those funds be recouped, since they were used for disinformation?

[H.E. Yuliya Kovaliv]

We welcome the decision of—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

It's over $345,000.

[H.E. Yuliya Kovaliv]

We welcome the decision of the TVO board to denounce the film and stop showing it.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Back in late November, General Budanov from the Ukrainian defence forces requested our 83,000 CRV7 rockets to be sent to Ukraine. They were sitting in storage and slated for disposal. Our Conservative leader, Pierre Poilievre, in February, seeing there was no response, demanded that they be sent by the Government of Canada, the Canadian Armed Forces. There was an announcement in June of a tranche of about 3,000 rockets and munitions that were sent, and then finally, two weeks ago, we had the announcement that the remaining 80,000 were going to be sent.

Has Ukraine received any of those rockets, and do you have a schedule of when the rest of them will be delivered for use in Ukraine so Ukraine can protect its sovereignty and its people?