National Defence Committee on Oct. 10th, 2024

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If I may, Madam, first of all, I did receive your letter. I've had my team make inquiries as to what information is available with respect to that period of time during the evacuation in Afghanistan.

I have received a response from my predecessor, Minister Sajjan, but I also understand that Minister Sajjan has agreed to appear before this committee. I think, respectfully, that I would allow him to offer his explanation to this committee rather than for me to try to interpret it on his behalf.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, absolutely. I'm not asking you to interpret what was done by your predecessor. Rather, I'm asking you to enlighten us as to what's next and how information, even orders, are transmitted between the minister and the Canadian Armed Forces. I believe this falls within your mandate.

We understood that there seemed to be structural problems with the chain of command, and that certain information transmitted could be mistaken for orders given by the minister. That's precisely what my questions are about.

To your knowledge, are there any problems of understanding within the forces about the minister's role that influence the way his requests or orders are perceived by the forces?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much, Ms. Normandin.

First of all, I've been the minister at National Defence now for some period of time. I do not believe that I have any authority to issue orders to the Canadian Armed Forces and to the chief of defence.

There are some circumstances, some authorities, when they require my approval to give them a certain authority to undertake certain actions. However, I don't believe, in my own experience.... I've seen nothing in the National Defence Act that implies that I would have any authority to issue an order to the CDS or to any member of the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much. That sheds a lot of light on the matter.

So I understand that, according to your understanding, a minister would be overstepping his role if he were to do something that could be likened to micromanaging or interfering in activities taking place in theatres of operations.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I have an excellent working relationship and I have my vice chief of defence with me, who may want to add remarks to this.

We discuss their response to operations and they brief me on the actions that they're taking. I think it is my responsibility to ask a lot of questions, to get information and to clarify certain things. I think that the value of those discussions is that together we actually can produce better outcomes. However, I do not believe that it is my authority to issue an order to the Canadian Armed Forces.

There is a very significant separation between my duties as an elected official and as the Minister of National Defence, and the chief of defence's and her team's responsibility to manage and operate the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you. I'm going to move on to another topic.

This summer, you announced $500 million in support for Ukraine. That was three or four months ago.

How much of that $500 million has been spent to date?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Quite a bit of it has—about $350 million. I stand to be corrected.

When we made that announcement, very shortly thereafter I also announced that we were committing a significant amount of money to the air defence coalition for the training of pilots. Canada was assuming a far more significant role in the training of Ukrainian fighter pilots. We were taking on responsibility for that and investing a fairly significant amount of money.

We've also committed money to two other coalitions. One is for the acquisition of munitions, which is primarily led by the Czech Republic. We're investing money in them to acquire munitions more quickly through the NATO coalition.

Finally, we're also investing fairly significantly—about $79 million—in a German-led coalition for the acquisition of air defence missiles.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

At the beginning of the year, you wanted to quadruple production of 155-millimetre shells, which was around 5,000 per month. As the end of the year approaches, where are we now?

I guess we'll be able to answer that question in a future round, since I'm out of time.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

It's really important work in progress and I would be happy to come back to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Madam Mathyssen, you have six minutes, please.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Minister, for appearing today.

There have been 42,000 people killed in Gaza alone and almost 100,000 wounded, and now there's a land incursion of Lebanon. Thousands of Canadians, very concerned, have reached out to me on this issue.

The United States has confirmed that it is willing to support Israel in escalating this war. Will Canada stop supporting Israel, implement the two-way arms embargo and impose Magnitsky sanctions on Netanyahu?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Those are questions frankly not entirely for me to answer, but I can tell you, first of all, Canada does believe in every sovereign nation's right to defend itself when attacked. We've just also passed the anniversary of the October 7 attack that was perpetrated by Hamas on Israel: 1,200 people killed, more than 250 people taken hostage, terrible atrocities committed on that date. We believe Israel has the right to defend itself, very similar to and guided by exactly the same laws as Ukraine's right to defend itself against the attack on their sovereign nation by Russia.

The laws of armed conflict I think clearly define in international humanitarian law what the limits of your ability to defend yourself look like. Canada has...and continues to seek a ceasefire in the Middle East. We believe conditionally in a two-state solution, in which Hamas would have no role in the formation of any future government in Palestine. We have also called for the laying down—

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Minister—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

—of arms and the return of the hostages.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

In terms of length of question and answer, Mr. Chair...?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Yes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

All right.

The United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon is a peacekeeping force whose mandate includes overseeing UN resolution 1701. The Israeli forces have tried to request that UNIFIL withdraw so they can continue their illegal incursion.

In fact, this morning there were reports that two United Nations peacekeepers were injured because of these strikes. What is your government's response or position to support the United Nations peacekeeping in the region and your reaction to this attack on UNIFIL soldiers?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Again, it is unfortunate in UN peacekeeping missions that—

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Does that fall into defending yourself or is that an attack on the United Nations?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Again, the application of the law in this case with respect to the law of armed conflict, I think it needs to be.... I appreciate your concern that you're raising. I think that there need to be investigation and evidence. If there is evidence of any violating of those laws, then there are appropriate mechanisms of resolution and justice that can flow from those processes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

The ICC and the ICJ...?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Canada is a signatory to the ICJ, and that is one of the mechanisms in which these matters can be resolved.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Israel has not allowed the following of those two important international bodies—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

All I can tell you is Canada's position with respect to these things. I'm not here to try to explain what Mr. Netanyahu is doing, but rather Canada's response to it, and I think it's been very clear. We very much support the International Court of Justice. We support the law and we follow the law of armed conflict and encourage all signatory nations to do just the same.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

It was touched upon earlier, but of course this week Conservative leader Poilievre made a truly appalling statement: that Israel could strike Iranian nuclear facilities.

We know how disastrous that could be. The international community has fought very hard to protect the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant from Putin's bombings. Your government called that reckless statement out. We certainly did, and now Iran has been threatening to proactively attack those nuclear facilities and escalate the conflict even further.

Minister, is the threat of an attack by Israel on nuclear facilities a red line for your government and will Canada finally commit to imposing sanctions on Netanyahu's dangerous government?