National Defence Committee on Oct. 10th, 2024

[Wendy Hadwen]

Thank you for your question.

With regard to CAFCYBERCOM and everything to do with cyber operations, in its annual report, the Communications Security Establishment mentions that we have already made progress in implementing several operations, but without giving further details. Rest assured that, since Bill C‑26 was passed and provided us with the requisite powers, we have been exercising them.

You suggested that the newly announced CAFCYBERCOM was just a gathering of people taken from elsewhere, but I assure you that it's a very important gathering, because it puts us on a more equal footing with our allies.

I'll let my colleague tell you more about it. I can assure you that, from a Communications Security Establishment perspective, we are a very well-recognized ally of our Five Eyes partners for our capabilities in this area.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Does this involve adding positions? If so, how do we ensure that we remain competitive with the private sector?

By creating this organization, are we creating new trades for non-commissioned members and officers in particular?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, Madam Normandin has left you five seconds to answer that question.

I'm going to just move on. If you can work your answer in some other way, that would be helpful.

Madam Mathyssen, you have two and a half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

In terms of following up on some of the questions around recruitment, I'll say that there are significant changes that are happening. A lot of the time, it sounds great at the top, but a lot of these significant changes aren't going through in terms of the ranks of those who have to enforce them.

How are you communicating that with those people who have to actually enforce those changes?

[LGen Stephen Kelsey]

Do you mean the implementation of the changes we're making?

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Yes.

[LGen Stephen Kelsey]

I'll use an example related to security clearances.

Obviously, we're not going to compromise the standards, but we need to change when and with a threshold at what point. It demands a number of resources from the department and also from CSIS to allow that. That's an example of a change in process that's very centralized because of the assurance we need to give ourselves and our allies because some of the equipment that's being used is their intellectual property.

I will flip it now to the recruiter at the recruiting centre. The chief of the defence staff and our deputy have created a new form called the recruiting campaign board, where we look at specific issues along the path from interest all the way through to completion of training. The decisions that are made on a Thursday are transmitted directly through the recruiting centres immediately.

For example, the aptitude testing or the medical.... The medical will be the next topic. We're going to be continuing with the aptitude testing, but it's when it takes place. Is it before entry or after? That changes the threshold for some of the recruiters' work on which files get accepted faster.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

With my remaining time, Mr. Chair, I would like to put a motion on notice.

My apologies to the translators, as this is quite lengthy and I did not give it to them in advance. I'll read it into the record:

Given that: The International Court of Justice ordered Israel to change its actions to prevent the “real and imminent risk” of genocide; Given that the UN Human Rights Council called on all states to cease the sale and transfer of weapons to Israel immediately, or else risk complicity in war crimes or acts of genocide; Given that Parliament voted in March of 2024 in support of the NDP's motion to end arms transfers to Israel; Given Canada's clear legal obligations under the Arms Trade Treaty against transferring weapons to another country if there is a probable risk that they could be used in violations of international humanitarian law; Given that the government is refusing to close loopholes that allow military goods and technology to be shipped from Canada to Israel via the United States through the Canada-U.S. Defence Production Sharing Agreement; And given that the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of National Defence have refused to give clear answers regarding the potential use of Canadian exports of military goods and technology in Israel's horrific siege on Gaza: 1. That the committee immediately order the production of: (i) all relevant memoranda, briefing notes, e-mails, records of conversation and all other related records from the offices of the Minister of National Defence, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Privy Council Office and the Prime Minister's Office related to arms transfers to Israel; (ii) all relevant memoranda, briefing notes, e-mails, records of conversation and all other related records from the offices of the Minister of National Defence, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Privy Council Office, the Canadian Commercial Corporation and the Prime Minister's Office related to the $60-million deal to transfer Canadian-made M933A1 120mm High Explosive Mortar Cartridges and related equipment to the United States; (iii) all relevant memoranda, briefing notes, e-mails, records of conversation, and all other related records from the offices of the Minister of National Defence, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Privy Council Office, the Canadian Commercial Corporation and the Prime Minister's Office related to analysis of Canada's Arms Trade Treaty obligations; (iv) all legal analysis conducted by the Department of National Defence, the Department of Justice, ISED, Global Affairs Canada and the Canadian Commercial Corporation on the impact of the U.S.-Canada Defence Production Sharing Agreement on our international law obligations; (v) all relevant memoranda, briefing notes, e-mails, records of conversation and all other related records from the offices of the Minister of National Defence, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Privy Council Office and the Prime Minister's Office related to the Canada-Israel Strategic Partnership; 2. That these documents be provided to the committee within 60 days; 3. That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), upon receipt of these documents, the committee undertake a study of Canada's defence industry and our Arms Trade Treaty obligations; that the committee hold a minimum of eight meetings for the duration of the study; and that the committee invite the Minister of National Defence, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of Industry, the CEO of the Canadian Commercial Corporation, along with relevant government officials, international law experts, researchers and civil society organizations; and that the committee report its findings to the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

Mr. Bezan, you have five minutes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you.

I'll be looking forward to talking to GDLS in London, Ontario to talk about how this motion is going to hurt jobs in their plant.

ADM Hadwen, you mentioned a website. Did you say it was “disinformation.ca”?

[Wendy Hadwen]

I thought so.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Okay. I just bought it because it was available on GoDaddy.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

It's not owned. I think you should get it bought up real quick.

[Wendy Hadwen]

Yes. I'll get back to you with this.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

If we're going to be handling disinformation, let's make sure that the Russians or the PRC don't get hold of that before too long.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It's on the Conservative website.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I also want to go back to a comment by General Kelsey in response to an earlier question from Mr. Stewart.

You said that the shortage of nine-millimetre munitions and the shortage of maintenance on vehicles in our reserve units are all because we're essentially needing those dollars for the reg force.

[LGen Stephen Kelsey]

I was acknowledging—poorly—that in the past three decades we have optimized, in this case, the army, for contribution efforts. We did so with great efficiency, such that in many cases we didn't have the people to equal our structure, nor the equipment. This was a choice, and it manifested most precisely in our reserve units, which we actually rely on heavily. This was to optimize our output. We made choices here in Canada across our units.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

This is more of a function of the recent budget cuts that we see, that you're not having the ability.... Almost a billion dollars per year is getting cut. The lapsed funding.... You can't tap that to help our reserve units. We have a lot of our different units out there at the armoury level; they're well staffed. They need the support to make sure that the equipment works and that they're fully trained.

[LGen Stephen Kelsey]

It's absolutely true that we want to invest in our reserves better. We need them. We need the people. We need their expertise.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

It's because, essentially, your surge capacity is your reserves.

[LGen Stephen Kelsey]

It is indeed. In fact, we have a number of them working full time right now. We can get the exact number, but it's between 8,000 and 9,000 reservists working full time for us, filling key positions.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

In the past, General Eyre has been here and has talked about the shortages that we face. We're short almost 16,000 members of the Canadian Armed Forces. In addition, 10,000 of those who are already through basic training are still undertrained and undeployable. Do we have current numbers? Are we where we're supposed to be as mandated strength? How short are we for the different divisions of the Canadian Armed Forces: army, navy, air force, special forces?