National Defence Committee on Oct. 10th, 2024

[Stefanie Beck]

Actually, that's the big question we're facing at the moment. Perhaps the Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff would like to elaborate on this.

As we consider the number of people we can bring in each year, we have to think at the same time about the number of people who can take the various courses required. This means that we may have to change the different programs so that people can access them, and do so on an ongoing basis, so that people don't have to wait a few months or a few weeks between different courses.

I don't know if Lieutenant General Kelsey wants to add any clarification.

[LGen Stephen Kelsey]

Yes, thank you.

We've discussed the beginning of the process and the changes with regard to safety, the medical component, skills and changing mindsets.

As we said in our introduction, it's a pipeline, a continuum of capabilities, processes and priorities. That's why we have to make choices and decisions to reorient personnel or resources to increase training capacity, from basic training to deployment.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

The ministermentioned that relations with the industry were sometimes complex. We heard a number of witnesses strongly suggest that Canada implement a defence industrial policy. We also know that NATO has called for increased industrial capacity in defence.

What policies are currently in place? Are we on the verge of one day seeing a uniquely Canadian defence and industry relations policy?

[Stefanie Beck]

We completely agree that we need to have a strategy for the defence industry in Canada. It's a strategy that would be complex to implement and would have repercussions across the country. In fact, we'd like to discuss it with this committee. We don't necessarily expect to do it here, in this forum, but it would be very useful to get your impressions on the subject.

As far as we're concerned, we want to create a strategic partnership with the various industry stakeholders in Canada and make sure we have the supply we need, when we need it.

Just on the ammunition question, we ran into an issue. The industry wasn't ready to increase deliveries, even though we knew it would become a necessity. Now we have the money, and that's what we want to do together.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I'd like to hear your comments on the announcement that was made on September 26 about the creation of the Canadian Armed Forces Cyber Command, or CAFCYBERCOM.

We know that Canada was already not conducting offensive operations in the cyber domain. I understand that won't be the case with CAFCYBERCOM either.

I'd like to know what the added value of creating CAFCYBERCOM is, because in the end, it seems to me to be no more and no less than a rearrangement of what already existed, with no additional capacity, no additional personnel and no additional specific mission.

[Stefanie Beck]

I can start answering, and then I can hand over to my colleagues to add clarification.

I would say that the most important thing to remember is that it means that we are prioritizing this activity. The issues we're facing at the moment show that it's only going to get bigger in the months to come. In fact, it's already happening. We've already talked about the government's investment in cybersecurity. We also see that our partners are putting a lot of emphasis on this. We're gaining a lot of opportunities for collaboration by doing a lot of work on this.

Wendy, did you want to add anything? Or Steve?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It's an important question, and I would like to see it answered, but we've run out of time.

Madam Mathyssen, please go ahead.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Just before this meeting began, we received a letter from the Department of National Defence on military housing. These numbers show that we're only on track to build 650 units across the whole country in the next five years.

I filed an Order Paper question earlier in the year. It claimed that the wait-list for CAF housing was 1,964 applicants, and we know the CAF needs to build about 5,000 new homes. The plan is currently not where it needs to be. What steps are you taking to fill this gap?

[Stefanie Beck]

Housing has been a challenge for us for decades, and we can only spend the money that we have, obviously. Though there is a lot of money coming up that you have seen and mentioned, and the number of houses that we are expected to build, it doesn't actually show what we currently spend, of course. We already have tens of millions of dollars annually in building and procuring new housing, as well as renovating the housing we already have.

In addition to that, though, and to the industrial strategy point, we are looking to work with the housing development industry very differently, because we know that we need housing in very different ways. We have land, obviously, and we have space available that we know the municipalities, provinces and territories want us to use for housing.

We are shortly going out with information to developers around the country—and very specifically in certain spots—and asking for information on levels of interest in building housing that could serve not only CAF members but also the local population and, indeed, where possible, focus on indigenous communities. What we would like as well is to be able to include in those new buildings day care—child care centres—and to make sure they are accessible to all, thereby hitting multiple stones at the same time.

There's a lot more to follow on that. It's really a good-news story, I hope, in working with the housing developers too.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Currently in the House, we have Bill C-66. I'm hoping that we can get past some shenanigans in the House in order to bring this bill to committee. A lot of people have been waiting a long time for it to be brought forward.

I know that there are a lot of concerns. We have a lot of work to do in this committee on that piece of legislation, but I'm concerned, too, about ensuring that more cases aren't stayed due to the transferring of cases between jurisdictions. Can you provide any updates on how many cases have been successfully transferred and how many cases have successfully reached a verdict in the civilian courts? Also, have we seen any more cases stayed?

[Stefanie Beck]

I don't have that information, although I don't think any more have been stayed. We'll have to provide that to you later.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay. I would appreciate your providing that information to the committee.

Beyond culture change, there's this feeling amongst survivors that there's this rotten apple theory: that if we can get through a handful of bad actors on this stage, the problem will go away. They certainly believe that cannot happen and that the problem is a permissive culture that allows perpetrators to use their power and test how far they will go.

Beyond Bill C-66, what are the government's next steps in combatting sexual misconduct?

[Stefanie Beck]

We would certainly agree that there is no single solution: that there is no one bad apple or group that we could get rid of and that would make the difference. This is an ongoing challenge for all of us, and it starts at the level of recruitment, in making sure that the people we're recruiting understand the role and the responsibilities of being a member of the military and ensuring that they uphold the highest codes of conduct and behaviour throughout their career.

While we're also continuing through our training at every possible opportunity and demonstrating leadership at the top, both on the civilian side as well as on the uniformed side, there will be a constant demonstration of what is expected of military members throughout their careers. Maybe there are more specifics. You know, there is all—

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

That's fairly general. Are there specifics you can point to?

[Stefanie Beck]

Training for sure is an integral part of everything we do. The supports remain in place, as you have seen, but I'd really rather focus on prevention than on trying to deal with the impacts afterwards. I think that really comes down to how we react and interact daily with our colleagues and members.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have one minute.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Was there something further from the lieutenant-general?

[LGen Stephen Kelsey]

It would be only to add that it begins with the implementation of all 209 recommendations from the four external audits. As was mentioned, there are training and education, but we're trying to adapt behaviour and that can be done only if we are monitoring ourselves in a different way.

I think the most important undertaking by General Carignan is the selection of leaders and recognizing that there has been bias in the way we were doing that. We're getting external views and external looks at the individuals we are identifying for progression in a way that's completely different than we've done in the past, but this is going to be an ongoing endeavour to change culture—for a long time.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

We might be able to do this if we run it tight: five-minute rounds in 25 minutes. We should be able to make it.

We'll start with Ms. Gallant for five minutes, please.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

My questions are for CSE.

Other nations, like the U.S., have mandated critical security practices, like multifactor authentication in 2021, and they are actively adopting zero-trust architecture. Why is Canada lagging in implementing these fundamental safeguards across government agencies?

[Wendy Hadwen]

CSE, in our most recent annual report, published quite a lot of detail about the extent to which we are issuing advice and guidance, in lockstep with the Americans and our other Five Eyes allies, concerning cybersecurity best practices for industry and for government.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

The U.S. Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act of 2022 mandates that organizations in 16 critical infrastructure sectors report significant cyber-incidents to CISA within 72 hours and that they report ransomware payments within 24 hours.

What is Canada doing? What comparable legislation or regulations does Canada have in place for mandatory cyber-incident reporting across critical infrastructure sectors? What are the specific reporting timelines and requirements for organizations?

[Wendy Hadwen]

Mr. Chair, Bill C-26, an act respecting cybersecurity, is currently in the Senate awaiting second-reading. This will create mandatory reporting obligations for critical infrastructure, but only for those that are federally regulated—that's four sectors.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

How are we effectively addressing the risk of insider threats within government agencies?

[Wendy Hadwen]

The security and intelligence community in the Government of Canada is taking a number of steps to address insider threat. Many of these have been reviewed recently by our review agencies. Some of those measures are concerning the security clearances that we ask employees to undertake. Other measures I can't talk about in this public environment.