National Defence Committee on Oct. 10th, 2024

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

How does our cybersecurity funding compare to other G7 nations, on a per capita basis?

[Wendy Hadwen]

I will look into the per capita funding. I don't have that breakdown exactly, but I can say that we are very competitive with, and comparable to, our G7 allies and Five Eyes partners.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

What recent investments has Canada made in advanced cyber-defence technologies to counter state-sponsored cyber-threats?

[Wendy Hadwen]

The $3 billion I referred to, from the defence policy update, is a significant investment in exactly that.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

How is the government ensuring that cybersecurity considerations are integrated into all aspects of national policy-making?

[Wendy Hadwen]

Our colleagues in the Treasury Board Secretariat, the CSE and other relevant departments are working together to ensure the adoption of cybersecurity best practices and standards in all government operations and procurements.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

How prepared are we to respond to a large-scale cyber-attack on national infrastructure or on government systems?

[Wendy Hadwen]

I'm not sure we can ever be prepared enough. That is to say, we are doing the best we can, and I hope that we don't find out.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

How are we addressing the cybersecurity risks associated with emerging technologies like 5G, IoT and AI?

[Wendy Hadwen]

Bill C-26, an act respecting cybersecurity, addresses exactly the 5G opportunity.

In other avenues of advanced technology, such as artificial intelligence or the advent of quantum computing, there is a significant amount of research under way within research agencies. CSE recently published, with the National Research Council, a call for proposals concerning artificial intelligence security.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Yes, our recent Nobel Prize laureate is very concerned about how we're going to protect ourselves against AI, so I trust that you'll be looking into that.

How effective are our current measures in preventing and mitigating ransom software attacks on public institutions?

[Wendy Hadwen]

We have a track record of success in protecting government institutions. Of course, it goes without saying that we sometimes don't know what we don't know.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Are there sufficient investments in securing Canada's electoral systems against cyber-interference?

[Wendy Hadwen]

The fact that there have been investments made was talked about in the public inquiry on foreign interference. I cannot comment on the sufficientness of them.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

How is the government ensuring cybersecurity policies are effectively implemented across all departments?

[Wendy Hadwen]

Again, the CSE works closely with the Treasury Board Secretariat to make sure all government departments are adopting and implementing the measures we impose upon them.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mrs. Gallant.

Mr. Collins, you have five minutes.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to start with one of the questions I asked the minister when he was here.

In his parting remarks to CAF members, General Eyre urged members to “Inoculate yourself and those around you against the toxic disinformation in our society”, and that “We must stop it from seeping into our ranks.”

My question to the minister was around Russia and China's efforts, but you also struggle with what your members read and see in the news. There's a crazy theory being pushed right now by an alt-right American representative talking about the government controlling the weather. Here, during the COVID situation, we had the Ivermectin party of Canada pushing misinformation in the House and undermining the efforts of public health officials as they related to combatting the virus, and to the efficacy of the vaccine. The misinformation isn't just coming from Russia and China. It's all around us.

I'll go back to that inoculation reference from General Eyre. I'm hesitant to use the word, because it almost sounds like a conspiracy theory in the making.

Can you talk about your efforts, internally, as they relate to dealing with your members and the misinformation they might hear from our enemies abroad and domestically—even within this House?

[LGen Stephen Kelsey]

Thank you.

We spent a lot of time thinking about the four contested areas of war fighting. I'm happy to expand.

One of them is the information environment. We tend to think of this in terms of our adversaries—some of the threat actors are well known—and what they're doing to counter narratives or use information in a way counter to what we understand is the truth.

Where we need to work harder is on the prevalence of social media and the way young Canadians communicate, exchange and learn. We're not there yet. It begins with over-communicating among leaders and using all the tools we have available in order to ensure that our understanding of what's happening and our truthfulness get out first. It's a constant tension. In one way, we have young, educated men and women challenging us on “why” and “what”, and they're learning that through social media. The exchange is much healthier. It challenges us as leaders.

We have much more work to do in the information environment.

[Wendy Hadwen]

The CSE is also responsible for a public awareness campaign on behalf of the Government of Canada. It doesn't have a catchy title. It is disinformation.ca.

We believe there's a big opportunity to encourage Canadians in all parts of the country—in every place—to think skeptically about the information they receive.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I'll switch gears now to recruitment. It's obviously top of mind for everyone around the table. Normally, some initiatives don't go forward because of a lack of funds, but this isn't one of those instances.

I had the opportunity in June to tour the recruitment centre right here in Ottawa. I spent a couple of hours with staff walking me through how someone makes an application and then gets the offer. Perhaps it is different across the country, but, there was that whole internal....a number of issues then prevented the information and the applications from moving forward in a timely way. It's just so disheartening to see that for so many people, by the time they receive an offer, they've already made another life decision. They have to pay the bills, and they have to find other employment. They thought this process might be four to six weeks, and it ends up being 10 to 12 months. Something internally is broken.

You've received a lot of questions today, and we've talked about this at the committee in the past. We need to do a study on it. Can you give us some details in terms of how we fix that? The dominoes fall in a way that works against us. Knowing that we're turning so many people away is worse than disheartening. We've heard some generalities today, but can you provide specifics to the committee?

[LGen Stephen Kelsey]

I'll endeavour to do so. First, we recognize that we're in a competition for talent. I was recently at the Pentagon with my counterparts—from Australia, the U.K. and New Zealand, as well as the U.S.—and we all share the same concern. We're competing for talent.

Second, we recognize that our own processes are working against us. Although we've given some specific examples, business transformation is what we're looking at. We're looking at how security clearances are done and at how medical and aptitude testing is done. We are not compromising standards. We want to access Canadians faster. Then, instead of having front end and all that completed, we're doing smart risk-based decisions on entering folks in with reliability checks and completing that process while they're doing their basic training. That's one example of the business transformation.

However, it's absolutely true that we need to automate our system. This is the digital age, and we need to be digital in our approach. My own son is going through the recruiting process, so I'm learning without saying anything, and I can accept that there are significant frustrations. It's not a one-size-fits-all. We are not compromising standards. For some of our competitive trades for the men and women, we want to do the aptitude testing and the deep security clearances faster.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

As an aside, may I just say that this has been a preoccupation of the committee. The last time the CDS was here, she undertook to provide more detail on the plan. She is about to receive a letter reminding her of her undertaking to provide more detail.

With that, Madam Normandin, you have two and a half minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to come back to CAFCYBERCOM, the Canadian Armed Forces Cyber Command.

You mentioned that its role was to emphasize the importance of Canada being more active in cybersecurity. Still, I get the impression that this is an entity that went and got people from elsewhere, who were given the same tasks, mainly the acquisition of cyber intelligence, without any additional funding.

How can this, for example, increase Canada's credibility internationally to eventually be part of AUKUS Pillar ll? Is it enough?

[Stefanie Beck]

We all want to answer.