National Defence Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2024

[Richard Fadden]

I'm going to exclude the United States, because they're in a category of their own. They do a whole raft of things, from purely military to all the way off the spectrum. We can put them aside.

The Australians and a number of others, for example, promote high-level visits. I know that sounds childish, but in terms of international relations, it sends a message that they're supportive.

A couple of countries have better trade deals. We've been working with Taiwan for a while to improve our trade arrangements. I think we could probably do more. General Thibault suggested we could do a variety of things at the staff level with the military. We could promote that. They have an indigenous population. They're very keen to learn how we're dealing with our indigenous population, so we're doing a bit on that. Maybe we could do more.

I suspect this is the sort of thing where, if you ask, the Library of Parliament could give you two or three pages of examples. What's lacking, I think, is an acceptance on the part of ministers that there is going to be push-back in how much they're prepared to take before they say no. I argue we should do more, but there's a balancing act there, somewhere.

I don't know, Guy, if you want to add to that.

[LGen (Ret'd) Guy Thibault]

I must admit that we didn't have the opportunity to get a sense of what all the rest of the partners are doing with Taiwan when we were there.

In the security and defence domains, clearly our policies have been restrictive rather than permissive. I think we should be moving in a direction where, if peace, stability and security in the Taiwan Strait and the Indo-Pacific are the first objectives of our Indo-Pacific strategy, we should think about the relationship we have with Taiwan from that perspective. I can attest to the fact that, at Defence and in the Canadian Armed Forces—at least when I was serving—we had no relationship with Taiwan, and no intersections with them.

That's where I would start with our engagement, at least in the defence and security sectors. Look at policy and military staff connections to identify opportunities we might have with them. I can think of all kinds, whether it be for humanitarian assistance, disaster relief or military conscription. They're having struggles with their training. They're not an operationally experienced military. They are defensive and reacting to the probes they've gotten. Ultimately, in the conduct of operations, they would benefit from partners other than the United States helping them with their institutional development and the strengthening of their armed forces.

There are many things that could be done, but we have to start talking to them before we can identify what the real issues are and where we can add some real value for them.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Lambropoulos.

Unfortunately, this brings it to a close. I say “unfortunately” quite sincerely because I think we have benefited mightily by the wisdom and insights from both of you. I know it's trite to say thank you for your service, but to both of you, thank you for your service to Canada over many, many years. We really appreciate your coming to the committee and talking to us.

Interestingly, I was just thinking of our trip to Taiwan a year or so ago with Ms. Mathyssen. Christine, were you there? No. That's right. Was it James? No, it was Cheryl. Okay.

Many of the things you said were observations that we had made.

Mr. Fadden, one that kind of caught my attention was that we should take three or four departments over to Taiwan to see how they deal with cyber-attacks, misinformation and disinformation. If you want to enhance your defence and security, the Taiwanese can actually teach us about misinformation, disinformation and the millions of attacks they have on a daily basis. That is something we could really learn.

Unfortunately, I have to bring the gavel down and call this meeting to a close, but we really do appreciate it.

Colleagues, next Thursday, there will be a briefing on the Middle East. On October 29, we're going to do space defence. On October 31, the Finnish speaker will be here for the first hour, and space defence will be for the second hour. On November 5, we're anticipating the presence of Minister Sajjan.

You might speak to me as well, because the Finnish ambassador is inviting people for supper, I think, one night, for those who might be interested in that.

The other thing is, our colleague, Andy Fillmore, won. I thought we would send him a letter on behalf of the defence committee congratulating him. I'm sure the enthusiasm may be somewhat less on that side, but the enthusiasm over here will be wild.

Thank you again.

The meeting is adjourned.