National Defence Committee on Oct. 29th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Colleagues, I see that we have quorum. We are already running a bit behind time, and I don't want to further abuse the good graces of our witnesses, so I will call this meeting to order.

I have a minor housekeeping item first, which is that I need Mr. Bezan to move a motion that the study budget on the brief on the Middle East be adopted. The budget is $1,000. It was distributed to members on October 21.

Thank you, Mr. Bezan, for moving that, and thank you, Mr. Collins, for seconding it. Is there any discussion?

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you very much. Don't you love democracy in action?

I want to welcome to the committee, from the Calian Group, Mr. Kevin Ford, chief executive officer; and from Mission Control Space Services, Mr. Ewan Reid, chief executive officer.

I'm sure our very esteemed new clerk, Mr. Bourgault, has briefed you on the procedures. Each of you has five minutes.

Let's start with Mr. Ford, and then we'll go to Mr. Reid. We look forward to what you have to say.

[Kevin Ford, Chief Executive Officer, Calian Group Ltd.]

Thank you. Good afternoon.

Ladies and gentlemen, I am very pleased to be here today to provide my comments.

Thank you for holding hearings on this important topic, and I look forward to today’s discussion.

As mentioned, I'm Kevin Ford, CEO of Calian Group. I'm also the vice-chair of Space Canada. Calian, if you don't know, is a Canadian company that designs, builds, tests and installs ground stations; builds custom components for space; provides custom software integration; and delivers 24-7 satellite flight operations. We deliver ground stations for a wide range of satellite applications, including earth observation, synthetic aperture radar and satellite communications. We have manufacturing facilities in Saskatoon and Regina, Saskatchewan; Ottawa, Ontario, and Vaudreuil-Dorion, Quebec.

Calian delivered 35-metre deep space antennas for the European Space Agency as part of the Rosetta mission to fly a probe to a comet hundreds of millions of kilometres from earth and then land on it. For NASA, we've delivered 12-metre antennas for the very long baseline interferometry program to determine earth’s place in the galaxy relative to space bodies. For the Canadian Space Agency, we've delivered satellite flight operations to make sure that Canada’s satellites are on time and on target for the mission they are delivering. Finally, we've delivered landing stations for Natural Resources Canada.

For cybersecurity, Calian delivers network security, network operations centres and security operations centres and emissions security solutions to protect facilities, networks and infrastructure from unauthorized intrusion. We also deliver realistic and immersive individual and collective training to prepare the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces for the challenges they face on operations.

Canada was the third spacefaring nation in 1962 and has been a global leader in developing on-earth and in-space technologies. However, Canada is in danger of falling behind partners, allies and adversaries in space. The central challenge facing Canada now is the need to better integrate its commercial space sector into a national vision of what Canada will do in space. The commercial sector represents roughly 85% of the space market today. The commercial sector is primarily driving the newest innovations and latest capabilities. The capabilities that are owned and operated by governments for civil and defence purposes are overwhelmingly developed and delivered by commercial companies. Canada’s allies have recognized the need to better integrate their commercial sectors into a national vision. Moreover, they have organized to deliver the most value for their industries and their national interests.

Australia has integrated commercial components into its civilian and defence strategies. The United Kingdom has a national strategy that includes civil, defence and commercial components. The United States has taken a similar approach through a national strategy. The U.S. Space Force has prioritized outreach and collaboration with the commercial sector and established offices for that specific purpose.

In budget 2024, Canada announced the formation of a national space council to better integrate civil, defence and commercial sectors. This is a very positive step. A national space council should move forward with a similar approach to that of our allies, and provide a vision, with priorities, for connecting the commercial sector to national strategic objectives. Canada risks falling behind nations that are taking a deliberate approach to implementing a national vision.

Defence procurement in Canada takes too long and is, frankly, no longer fit for purpose in a digital era. The duration of the process often means that a capability defined in an RFP is no longer the most current by the time it is procured. In space, development cycles are faster than procurement. Without fundamentally changing defence procurement for space programs, Canada risks procuring yesterday’s capability tomorrow. Improving dialogue between defence and the commercial sector would be a positive step in accelerating procurement.

The RFP process of procurement, by definition, assumes an outcome, the one defined in the RFP. A better approach for Canada would be to define the problem that Canada is trying to solve and engage with the commercial space sector to discuss how the problem could be solved with existing technologies, or technologies that will be available soon. This approach would dramatically shorten the lag between definition and an in-service solution. The growth of dual-use technologies in space, where there are civil and defence applications for the same technology, means that new technologies are constantly being made available. To maintain a technological edge over adversaries, Canada needs to move faster from concept to in-service capability.

The new defence policy, “Our North, Strong and Free”, outlines Canada’s priorities for NORAD modernization. Canada’s relationship with the United States is its most important relationship, spanning culture, economy and national defence. The NORAD modernization programs are the right ones. Things like cloud-based C2, Arctic satellite communications, over-the-horizon radar, surveillance of space, surveillance from space, and cyber and quantum are essential, but they're simply not moving fast enough. We know that some of these programs are not scheduled to be operational until the mid 2030s. This is simply too long to modernize capabilities that are vital to Canada’s contribution to Canada-U.S. relationships.

In conclusion, Canada’s space industrial base is the driver of innovation for space in Canada. Government has a vital role to play in managing the civil and defence enterprises, and it should better integrate the commercial sector into a national vision. This means more clearly stating what Canada wants to do, making the commercial sector part of that, and connecting the commercial sector to the defence sector in a more deliberate way.

That concludes my remarks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Ford.

Mr. Reid, you have five minutes.

[Ewan Reid, Chief Executive Officer, Mission Control Space Services Inc.]

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before this committee. I am Ewan Reid, founder and CEO of Mission Control and a member of the board of directors of Space Canada.

Mission Control is 100% Canadian owned. It is a 10-year-old start-up, headquartered here in Ottawa, that develops advanced technology for space missions. In particular, our solutions are used for operating robotics and advanced payloads in space and AI in space. Our technology will be used to operate three lunar rover missions upcoming in the next 12 months alone, with customers across three continents. To our knowledge, we are the only Canadian-owned company to contribute hardware for a lunar rover mission. We were also the first organization in the world to send deep learning AI to the moon.

Beyond rovers and exploration, our AI technology is also applicable for earth observation and space domain awareness applications. Last year, we uploaded a deep-learning AI algorithm to a European space agency earth observation satellite. Most recently, we’ve just announced Canada’s next giant leap for AI in space, a mission we’ve dubbed “Persistence”. Enabled by a financial contribution from the Canadian Space Agency, the Persistence mission will demonstrate the power of robust and resilient AI for in-orbit processing to preserve bandwidth, enable rapid decision-making and improve our knowledge of earth. This is a huge paradigm shift.

AI has been used for years to process the massive amounts of data that are generated in space, but this has been done here on the ground. Operators spend millions every year to downlink all that data through a ground station, and then intelligent processing is used to produce actionable insights. With Persistence, we want to move that intelligence to the edge, deploying the AI on the spacecraft itself to downlink insights rather than raw data. Not only will this save space operators millions of dollars every year; it will save time that is so critical in defence and security applications. In fact, it even enables using spacecraft in ways that wouldn’t be possible without intelligence on board, things like operating spacecraft in close proximity to other spacecraft. Many of these use cases are highly relevant to space defence and are capabilities that Canadian adversaries are working on.

Before we can usher in this new era of AI in space, we need to demonstrate that it will work. This is why the Persistence mission is so important. By conducting a year-long demonstration in orbit, we can prove that AI can be a resilient, trustworthy tool and be positioned to license our platform to capture a share of what is predicted to be a trillion-dollar industry in the coming decades. This market opportunity is key for us. However, to tackle it, we’re competing with well-funded, international companies that are moving fast and, most critically, are working closely with their governments.

While we’ve benefited from significant R and D funding from the Canadian government and have been supported by organizations and programs like NRC IRAP, EDC, BDC and others, Canada remains a challenging environment for companies trying to compete internationally. Canadian firms like mine need more than moderate and intermittent R and D funding. We need the certainty of a long-term plan from and partnership with the government. We need to be able to move from R and D and demonstrations to selling our technology and services to government.

Around the world, leading space nations work hand in glove with their domestic industries. Whether in China or the U.S.A., foreign nations are anchor customers for their space industries, procuring services in ways that companies want to sell them, enabling the industry to be more competitive and to raise capital. Innovation in space, robotics and AI is moving rapidly. Canada and Canadian firms need a way to leverage innovation quickly so the domestic industry can provide for the needs of Canadians in a modern and evolving world, a world with increasing geopolitical tensions, climate change and this rapid technological advancement, particularly in the space domain.

The availability of private investment in Canada is far smaller than in the United States. If Canadian firms could sell more reliably, quickly and efficiently into the government, it would allow the space industrial base to raise capital, continue to advance, demonstrate and commercialize key technologies, and compete internationally. Beyond competing internationally, empowering the domestic industrial base ensures sovereignty over space capabilities. Canada must have the ability to support the full life cycle of space programs, from design and build to launch and operations. Without this, the Canadian Armed Forces and Canadian citizens will be beholden to foreign nations for critical infrastructure that underpins everything from communications and Arctic sovereignty to forest fire monitoring and fisheries.

Canadian firms have been leaders in AI, in space and in robotics, but we are at risk of falling behind without a way to sell these capabilities to the Canadian government at the speed of innovation.

Those close my remarks.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Reid.

Mr. Stewart, you have six minutes.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

You mentioned our launch capabilities. Can you just describe to me our current launch capabilities in this country?

[Kevin Ford]

Currently, there is no launch capability that we have as a sovereign Canada. However, there are programs for mission control launch. One in Halifax is starting a launch capability, and there's another one I'm aware of.

Right now, there's no launch capability, but two are in progress to launch in the short term.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Okay.

Forgive me. I'm new to the topic. I've been talking to other people in the space industry this week about the national space council and its makeup. There was some concern about the makeup of the council and how it can get things done.

I wonder if you can shed some light on the makeup of the council and its ability to work within the mandate it has.

[Kevin Ford]

Do you want to start? Then I'll give my comments.

[Ewan Reid]

We think the announcement of the council is excellent, amazing news. From an industrial perspective, it's critical that the Canadian government take a whole-of-government approach to space. There are so many elements interlinked across government departments that we're going to get the most effective use of industry with a national council, if it's functioning properly.

On that note, we definitely think this is important enough to be chaired at the ministerial level, with at least semi-annual, if not quarterly, meetings. From our perspective, it would be great to have that centralized somewhere like the Privy Council Office, to ensure it has the mandate to oversee space from an entire-government perspective.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Does it have an economic lens to look through, so private companies can earn their return on capital and continue to invest?

[Ewan Reid]

We were having a discussion before the meeting started about there being such a critical benefit. Look at the idea of increasing defence spending. That can be done with space assets. When they're not being used explicitly for a military or defence application, they can be used to support the common good of all Canadians—monitoring our coastlines, fisheries, forest fires and things like that.

That can be done through intelligent procurement, which provides a commercial benefit to Canadian industry and grows our industrial base. It also achieves the mandate of National Defence.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I would imagine that most of the space assets and satellites that go up need to have a dual purpose, because, from a financial standpoint, the computing power capacity up there is such that it lends itself to the greater good of Canadians, not just the military.

[Kevin Ford]

I think that's the opportunity.

The power of what's being launched today definitely has the capability to do exactly what you just said—dual use. It can be economically feasible from a government perspective. Also, as my counterpart said, it can have dual-use capability in both defence and commercial applications.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

We talked about procurement briefly.

Does this help speed things along? Again, private enterprise has a different time horizon than governments might, and different efficiencies and procurement. If there is an overlap of efficiencies, do you find it helps get things done more quickly, or does it leave defence capabilities behind?

[Ewan Reid]

Well, if the Canadian government is explicit about its long-term plans, private industry can plan around those. They can build the capacity and services that are required. If they can then sell those to the government and other customers, with the government being an anchor customer, it becomes a sustainable model, rather than the government always needing to procure, buy and own its own assets, which is what drives the very long procurement cycles.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Do you find that, with the procurement cycle being so lengthy here, you're more likely to sell to other countries as an anchor client? Then the IP gets lost from Canada, along with all of the associated downstream, positive effects we might have had.

[Kevin Ford]

From my viewpoint, a lot of the programs that were identified in NORAD modernization are all the right programs. I don't think it's a matter of not having the right programs. It's a matter, as you said, of getting those in place. There are companies investing billions in launching LEO and MEO satellites.

To your point, in order to be commercially viable, they need to find those first anchor customers. What we're hoping is that, as a Canadian industry, our first anchor customer is the Canadian government.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

How do you protect Canadian civilians? We were talking about AI in satellites. There are certain things we want to get out of a military application that the public may not be comfortable with. How do you go about protecting the public and communicating, “No, don't worry. The satellite is for military applications. We're not spying on you. We're not targeting you”?

How can you square that away?

[Ewan Reid]

We're launching this AI mission in Q2 of next year, and the big thing to note is that there are very specific applications for this deep learning. They do one very specific thing. This is not a large language learning model like ChatGPT. It can't be repurposed to do something else. It's only going up to do the thing it's going up to do. It's going to do that thing better than another implementation of software. By demonstrating that, we can prove it.

The other thing I would say is that, with Canadian safeguards in place, we can make sure the public is protected and safe. If it's not a Canadian capability, the Canadian government and Canadian people have no control over it.

[Don Stewart, Conservative, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

The other question that I was thinking about in relation to that is, if you have a dual-purpose space asset, are you not then exposing yourself to certain risks, because, if it's a military asset, our adversaries may find it a worthy target?

[Kevin Ford]

This is why I think the space council is so important. If we can basically design in the requirement for both the protecting civilian and defence use cases, it can be done right from the onset. It's hard to do once these things get launched.

I think the key thing is to get that in there now, look at those dual-use opportunities, speed up these programs and then make sure that, as an industry, we hold ourselves accountable to ensure that they cannot be hacked with regard to satellite capability.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Ford and Mr. Stewart.

Ms. Lapointe, you have six minutes.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Ford, it's my understanding that in July the Canadian Defence Review magazine named you defence executive of the year.

Congratulations on that recognition.

[Kevin Ford]

Thank you. I appreciate that.