Evidence of meeting #124 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was evacuation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
First of all, when it comes to the list of the equipment, this is where we don't get into details. Once the direction is given, you leave it for the Canadian Armed Forces to decide what is actually necessary. Whatever is needed, they figure that out, and they did.
Our job is to make sure that they had the authority to do their work.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
You didn't ensure that the CAF had everything it needed to carry out the mission—to carry out the evacuation of Canadians.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
That is the responsibility of the chain of command and the chief of defence staff all the way through.
One thing I can assure you of is that many times we asked the question of whether there was anything else that was needed. I can assure you that we were monitoring things very closely. The Canadian Armed Forces, from what I saw, were moving resources in anticipation. They did absolutely amazing work in extreme circumstances.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Were you aware of whether or not they had any armoured vehicles or any artillery?
After all, they had to go in and evacuate our Canadian citizens and interpreters.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
The safety part was extremely important.
As ministers, secretaries or equivalent, we looked at getting advice from our chiefs of defence staff on whether we could relaunch the mission after the evacuation. The advice we were given was that yes, we could.
In terms of all the resources that were needed—not just from us, but working together as allies.... I remember that my first call was with the U.K., and then we both spoke with the U.S. Secretary of Defense and at that time decided that we could.... Then we had our military folks work collaboratively to put the operation together.
We don't get into details of what equipment is actually going to be needed. That's for them to decide.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
How many of our Canadian Forces were injured during the evacuation?
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
None. None were reported to me.
I just want to make sure, going back to the motion here, that you fully understand that the Afghan Sikhs and Hindus were part of the government policy, because that's what we're here to discuss.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
I believe we're here to discuss the operation as a whole—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
That's not correct. We're here to discuss whether the minister at the time inappropriately used his authority to give preference to a particular group. That's what we're here for.
You have about 30 seconds left.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
What specific types of undertakings did you convey to ensure that everyone who was supposed to get out of Afghanistan was taken out of Afghanistan?
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
My job was to manage the evacuation overall. That was making sure we have the proper authorities—not only enough resources, but the authorities—needed for them to be able to do their job, and then the chief of the defence staff goes in—
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
The point was that you just read out what this discussion was supposed to be about today and he replied in the generality, as opposed to the specifics that he wanted to address.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
If I were him, I wouldn't have answered your question, but that's another issue. That's just me.
Madam Lapointe, you have five minutes, please.
November 5th, 2024 / 5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The logistical complexities of evacuation missions must seem insurmountable—at least they do to me—yet our Canadian Armed Forces seem to do the impossible, so I want to take this opportunity to thank them for their service to our country.
I want to make sure I understand the overall approach to the mission.
Can you give us a sense of the who, the how and the when of the timelines involved in getting the people out of Afghanistan?
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
I'm happy to discuss that.
As I mentioned earlier, first and foremost, we had a request from Global Affairs early on to look at the security of our Canadian embassy personnel, which we normally get. Then, on July 27, we received a request from Global Affairs to support the IRCC evacuation of the remainder of the Canadian personnel and the permanent residents.
On July 30, we gave approval to the Canadian Armed Forces to deploy to Afghanistan to support that evacuation.
The chartered flights, working with Global Affairs, started on August 4. On August 13, the additional measures were announced by the minister of immigration at the time to include additional groups, as I had mentioned—vulnerable groups such as women leaders, humanitarian, defence, journalists, and persecuted and religious minorities, which included the Afghan Sikhs.
On August 15, because of the safety of the Canadian embassy personnel—the Taliban had entered Kabul—we had to evacuate everybody and had to cease operations. A lot of work happened in between. On August 19, we were able to determine that we could reinsert our folks, with our allies, back into the Kabul airport to resume the evacuation.
Then, in managing that, there was a whole lot of stuff that happened in between that resulted in us completing everything by the 27th. We had no choice after that but to completely depart.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
There were many vulnerable populations, and some of them you've highlighted for us. How do we identify these groups, and how were they triaged?
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Originally, it was through Global Affairs, and especially through IRCC. They had a list. Then, based on our government's policy that the then minister of immigration had announced, that's how they were triaged.
When we had to reinsert into the Kabul airport and re-establish security, you can imagine the chaos taking place at that time. Once we gave them the guidance and the direction and were feeding them information, then we had to rely on the folks on the ground to be able to triage. From what I understand, the security system was set up so they would meet folks as well. They had created their own RV point outside the airport, where the Afghan Sikhs were also at that time.
For anybody who was on a list, they were able to get them inside. That included interpreters, their families, the vulnerable groups and many others, including fixers for journalists. I remember those types of conversations taking place, and many others.
Just imagine this. They were trying to move as many people as possible to the RV point, and if they were on the list, they were trying to get them in as quickly as possible.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
There must have been so much chaos on the ground. What would have been the process for someone who wanted to get out of Afghanistan?
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
A lot of work was done beforehand. Actually, I want to thank the members of Parliament who were involved with that, whether it was supporting the interpreters or the vulnerable populations, by forwarding that information to IRCC at that time.
I knew, when I was minister of national defence, that the Canadian Armed Forces had provided a list of people who actually worked for us. We provided that to the IRCC. Other NGOs, like the Bhullar foundation, were also providing information.
Everything worked off an approved list. Even through that chaos, we had to be very mindful that.... Imagine, with the tens of thousands of people who were there.... We all saw the images and know how heartbreaking it was, and it was heartbreaking for anybody who served there.
Through all that hardship, I want to also mention, just to the Canadian Armed Forces who were on the ground at that time.... They were accused of not helping as much. They saved so many people's lives. I got to meet some of the interpreters and their families who are here. It's because of that effort. They did it in extreme circumstances.
Sadly, I also want to say, let's not forget that 11 U.S. soldiers lost their lives at a location that we and the U.K. were manning. That was our location. We followed the intelligence very closely. We made the decision to stop at that time, but, sadly, U.S. personnel were killed at that time. We did that as safely as possible, but even after helping all those people, I know all of us feel a level of guilt, because people we worked with were left behind. I know those efforts did not stop. I know of people who—