National Defence Committee on March 30th, 2022

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

General, in terms of cyber and artificial intelligence, in what direction is the Canadian Forces going with regard to future systems?

[MGen Stephen Kelsey]

As my colleague Mr. Quinn alluded to, there is a distinction between the responsibilities that defence has versus nationally, which the security establishment has. I'm aware you received testimony from those experts earlier in the week, if not last week.

One of the things that is clear about how we will operate in the future is that there is going to be an expanded use of cyber and cyberspace, as well as information and misinformation.

The investments that were considered and are being proposed do relate to growing our expertise in defensive cyber for National Defence's systems as well as their employment overseas.

Again, those investments are done absolutely in lockstep with CSE and CSIS. It's equally true that there is a people component. It's not just about having any systems or capacity. It's really about how we attract and retain the expertise needed to be able to do that. That's a challenging question and certainly a focus of the chief of the defence staff's reconstitution efforts.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Quinn, when will the port be completed at Nanisivik?

[Jonathan Quinn]

Mr. Chair, I understand there have been some delays. It's always challenging to do this kind of infrastructure development in the Arctic under normal circumstances. That has been compounded a little by COVID and other issues recently.

This isn't my area of expertise, so we'll have to defer to colleagues in our infrastructure and environment branch.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Fisher, you have three minutes.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses today for their testimony.

I think about the changing world and I think Canadians are certainly more worried than ever about Russians entering our airspace, or North American airspace.

What is the degree of threat posed by Russians as it pertains to coming near North American airspace? How often does that happen?

[Jonathan Quinn]

Mr. Chair, maybe I'll take this one initially.

I can't speak to specifics in terms of exactly how frequently that happens. I would point to some recent remarks by the chief of the defence staff indicating that in the Arctic we don't see an immediate military threat. Obviously, the environment is changing dramatically both physically and geostrategically. We're monitoring developments in Russia and China vis-à-vis the Arctic really closely. We obviously need to be aware of what's happening in the north and be prepared to respond and defend.

I would say despite everything that's going on, with the world becoming more dangerous, we don't see an immediate threat and we're well prepared at the moment to monitor what's happening and respond as necessary.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I'll rephrase it a bit. Has the number of NORAD jet fighter scrambles and interceptions involving Russian military increased over the past few years?

[MGen Stephen Kelsey]

Mr. Chair, I would answer by acknowledging that it's an operational question beyond both Mr. Quinn's and my expertise. I would say that those incursions have been constant over the last decade, but I believe the question is specifically in relation to events in Ukraine.

What I would comment is that, from a defence planner perspective, it's a very sobering reality where the Russians are making investments in the north and, importantly, the will they have to act.

It's not just about Ukraine. It's in cyberspace. As my colleague said, it's not so much a fear of direct incursion on Canada's economic zone. It's all of the other instruments they're investing in to be able to get an advantage or to act as a deterrence for us in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Fisher.

I see the lights are flashing. I'm assuming, Mr. Clerk, that we have half an hour before the vote.

[The Clerk]

Those are the half-hour bells.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Can I get unanimous consent to proceed for the next 15 minutes?

I see nodding.

What I propose doing is running through this round. We might have a minute or two for each party after that, so I might do a speed round for the final bit.

With that, Madam Normandin, you have one minute.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

These days, we're hearing a lot about hypersonic weapons. The cost to operate these weapons is extremely high, up to $100 million. So we can expect them not to be widely used, but I'd like to know how much of an effect they will have. To what extent will they affect decisions that will have to be made about the North Warning System?

[MGen Stephen Kelsey]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

That's an excellent question.

It will certainly inform our approach in the future.

It's the speed, the manoeuvrability and the flight profile that will change how we look at our systems or surveillance. It is absolutely factored into how we're looking at the domain awareness of the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Madam Normandin.

Madam Mathyssen, you have one minute.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

This was touched on before, but I've had a lot of people ask me about it directly. I want to double back and ask whether there have been any talks or discussions whatsoever on developing Canada's ballistic missile defence.

[MGen Stephen Kelsey]

There are no known plans or discussions related to ballistic missile defence that I'm aware of.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We have Madam Gallant for three minutes, please.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This question would be for General Kelsey.

You're training and planning for what our troops need to be able to do based on the threats of the day. We spoke about the Arctic. Are you presently planning, or do you have future plans, to have a modern submarine capability in terms of the human workforce that's needed to operate in those conditions?

[MGen Stephen Kelsey]

Mr. Chair, with the funding received from “Strong, Secure, Engaged”, as you're aware, we are in the process of modernizing the Victoria class. That will carry on for the next number of years. As part of routine, prudent planning by all of our services, they look to the future at what the technology will enable and what our requirements will be. In the case of the submarine, it is perhaps one of the most strategic investments that has the ability to hold any threat actor at risk.

I can say that this will be part of any future consideration related to how we posture the forces to meet the vulnerabilities and threats of the future.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

As for extending the life of the Victoria class, the Victoria class cannot go under the ice in the Arctic. That is what I am told or what we've learned we need.

Is there any thought or planning being put forth to train submarine operators for the next generation of submarines that we need in order to be able to defend our northern flank?

[MGen Stephen Kelsey]

I hesitate to speak for the commander of the navy, but I do know they're paying very close attention to the advancements of technology in the air independent propulsion that could allow, if that is the path chosen, to create different capacities for the next generation if pursued, but there's not training under way today to be able to facilitate what that next generation would be.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

When will the recruitment and training start for the fabled F-35s that are apparently finally being negotiated? What plans are in place to get a full-flight crew for each of those planes ready to go?