On understanding China, it goes deeper even than diplomacy. If you look at any newspaper in the last 10 years, you'll see a glowing story about some new technology in China or some incredible app that Chinese consumers use. Maybe somewhere else, in the political section, you'll read about Chinese aggression or what China is doing to meddle in some other part of the world. We've tended to have this bifocal approach to China.
When I would come back to Ottawa as ambassador, I would try to get as many of the deputy ministers together as possible. Otherwise, the economic deputy ministers would see China as an opportunity, but the security and defence ones [Technical difficulty—Editor]. It's changing slowly, but it is beginning to change. I don't think it's too late, but it's happening.