National Defence Committee on Feb. 9th, 2022

[Bill Matthews]

Thank you for the question.

This project is still under development. We are nearly ready to issue a call for tenders. We will make decisions once we have assessed all of the responses that we receive. The project is ongoing.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Do you have a rough idea of the number of devices that would be used?

[Bill Matthews]

I cannot provide you with that information right now, but I may be able to provide further details over the coming months.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

I have one last question. We saw that the Canadian Armed Forces were called upon quite extensively for support during the COVID‑19 pandemic. I would like to know whether the armed forces feel that they have sufficient resources to respond to future requests by the provinces.

In the opinion of the armed forces, did the provinces ask a bit too much of them?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

I will go back to my comments on Canadian Forces health services and our capacity.

We can be viewed almost as the 14th health jurisdiction in Canada, much like the provinces and territories, so when the ask comes in for medical support, we have to take it away from our own clinics, our own care and our own training. That has been the biggest challenge over the course of the pandemic as that has been a shortfall across Canada.

As we go forward, as we look at what additional capacity and capabilities we may need in the future, health services are right at the top of the list.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I don't know whether there is time for another comment. I know that I have 30 seconds left.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I would have time only to ask a question, not to get an answer.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Normandin.

Ms. Mathyssen go ahead for six minutes, please.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you so much.

I'd like to direct my question to Colonel Holman.

As we were discussing with the minister, we were talking about Bill C-206 and wanting to make the amendment to delete paragraph 98(c) from the National Defence Act. Many families, the military ombudsman and Justice Fish have remarked that this is an obstacle to people with mental health issues getting help. Families have asked that this be removed, because they see it as a barrier for those who are contemplating self-harm.

Colonel Holman, could you discuss why, when the minister was talking about this note being added, you won't remove the section altogether?

[Colonel Robin Holman, Acting Judge Advocate General, Office of the Judge Advocate General, Department of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and Ms. Mathyssen, for the question.

I'd start by recognizing and accepting absolutely the concern that underlies the question and the proposal in the bill. It's a valid concern and one that we have to take seriously.

I think the key in giving effect to our intention to address it is finding the right balance between addressing that concern and ensuring that an important disciplinary concern continues to be addressed; that is to say, the provision deals with an important operational and disciplinary concern. We need to ensure that we can count on members of the armed forces being ready to serve when called upon to do so.

It's a matter of balance. This is a provision that was used several hundred times during World War II and has been used a handful of times in the more modern era. Our allies, all of those whose legal systems flow from the Anglo tradition, continue to have that provision in their code of service discipline or the equivalent.

In terms of what we can do going forward, the proposal submitted to Justice Fish was that we consider putting in a note to clarify the legislator's intent, to clarify Parliament's intent, that this is not a provision intended to capture those who, as a result of mental illness or mental disorder, seek to harm themselves. It's our thought that this is an appropriate way to strike the balance between the concerns you're raising, the concerns that are raised in the bill and the operational concerns.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

If this isn't something that is being used—you said it has been used “a handful of times” since World War II—why would the JAG so desperately need to hold on to it? Is it not true that so many have actually identified this specifically as a barrier in terms of receiving mental health help?

[Col Robin Holman]

I think the key point is that the JAG's role here is to provide legal advice on options. The chief of the defence staff and the chain of command are the folks who actually provide instructions on these things.

We're working closely with members of the chain of command. In fact, we've been working closely with our medical professionals as well. I understand that they have testified before this committee in the past in the committee's hearing, including Dr. Jetly, the director of mental health for the Canadian Forces.

We're continuing to try to find a way, as I said, to balance those concerns, working closely with the users, the owners of the system, who are the commanders.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

General Eyre, it's good to see you again.

Recently, the DND and CAF departmental results were tabled. The report found that the percentage of the air fleets that are serviceable to meet training and readiness requirements was at 55% in 2020-21, which missed the target of about 85%. That's a significant decline.

The report didn't explain why. I was hoping that you could shed more light on this matter. I would imagine that it's a key concern that the target was missed by so much. Also, I would like to ask if the delay in selecting a replacement fighter jet that has occurred is potentially the reason for this decrease.

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

The 85% target is aspirational. I'm not sure if there's any air force in the world that is able to achieve that rate of serviceability with their aircraft. That being said, my understanding is that there are multiple factors for this 55% rate, including the impact of COVID: the physical distancing and the restrictions that were in place, where you can't get all the technicians huddled around one aircraft at the same time.

Is the age of the aircraft a factor? Yes, absolutely, but I think the important thing is that we have been able to deliver on operations continually. We've been ready to respond and ready to deploy our aircraft as the need has been there.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

We're now on the next round.

Ms. Gallant, you have five minutes, please.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

I think I'm going to be taking this, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Oh, okay. Well, I guess we can allow that.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you. Through you, Mr. Chair, welcome to the witnesses.

General Eyre, I'm paraphrasing, but I believe you testified that we're making sure we have enough pilots, training and personnel. The Canadian Forces are about 10,000 people short; the navy is 1,000 short; infantry battalions are down to 300 people. We have under 50 fighter pilots, and 50% of our occupations are severely stressed.

Exactly what mitigation and recruitment initiatives have you undertaken to bring our military to full strength and being operationally ready, especially given that we're on the verge of a European war?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair, this is a question that consumes me, and I'm very focused on it. I'm not going to get into the exact figures here, but what is important is that we focus on both ends of this problem: recruiting and retention.

In terms of recruiting initiatives, what we're doing for this year is staffing our recruiting system to 100%. We are staffing our recruit training system to 100%. We're looking at making efficiencies in our personnel production pipeline so that recruits flow through that pipeline in a more efficient manner so that they are ready to be operationally deployed much faster.

At the front end, the attraction campaign is being much more focused. There are upgrades to customer service aspects of our recruiting website, understanding that much of the recruiting is going online right now. We're making more changes to the marketing content of our recruiting online presence and talking about the contract options, talking about the different 100-plus occupations that are out there.

There's a big myth propagated by Hollywood that when you join the military, you're going to have a big rucksack and carry a gun. Yes, that's true for a small number of our occupations, but a vast number are very different. There are a tremendous variety of different occupations that Canadians of all ages can go into.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

General, we only have a short amount of time. Do you have some sense, from these initiatives you're taking, of when we might see the CAF being at full strength and operationally ready?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

It's interesting. We were on a growth path immediately prior to the pandemic, and our numbers were increasing. At the same time, our ceiling has increased as well, because of the additional positions that came as part of the defence policy. Given the gap that we have right now, which is, on the regular force side, about 6,000 people, it's going to take a number of years. Depending on how effective these efficiencies are that we talked about, we're in the process of modelling how long that is going to take to bring us back up to that number.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you.

I understand, General Eyre, that you've been deputy UN commander in Korea. How do you view the threats posed to international security and our national security by Russia, China, Iran and North Korea? Could you rank those threats?

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair, thank you for the question.

That tour in Korea gave me invaluable experience, a front-row seat to what was happening in the security environment in the Asia-Pacific. What we see are countries, authoritarian states, achieving their national objectives, changing the rules-based international order to their benefit, the order that has served world security for so long and so well.

In terms of ranking threats, you've named the key ones. China, Russia, North Korea and Iran all have designs on changing either the regional or the world order for their benefit. Oftentimes, achieving national objectives just below the threshold of violent conflict by having all elements of national power work together—diplomacy, economics, military, information—is something that is of great concern.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Findlay. You have four seconds.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

I will use it wisely by saying thank you very much.