National Defence Committee on Feb. 9th, 2022

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Part of that bill was a requirement for the federal government to produce a report setting out the framework 18 months after the act. Are you familiar with that report?

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

With respect, Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

We've been doing really well. I want to stay on track.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

This is on track. It's relevant.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

I just ask about relevance. The minister is here to talk about her mandate letter, and I'm just wondering if the member can get back to a question about the mandate letter.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

With all due respect, Mr. Chair—

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Let me bring this to an end. I deem the questions to be relevant. You may continue with this line of questioning, although I think it would be more fruitful if the line of questioning was not quite so adversarial.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I apologize if it seems adversarial. I'm just trying to get in the questions in the two and a half minutes that I have. I do apologize. I take offence to the relevance question on that.

Part of the report talks about the Canadian Armed Forces and the mental health programs available to Canadian Armed Forces members. Are you familiar with the CAF-VAC joint suicide prevention strategy, Minister?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Of course I am. I'm the Minister of National Defence, and I take issues relating to mental health extremely seriously.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I appreciate that. Would you agree that the 988 national suicide prevention hotline, accessible to all Canadians, would be something that the Canadian Armed Forces could also employ?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

The issue of mental health and the Canadian Armed Forces is one that I've discussed at length with my team and with the chief of the defence staff. We will continue to adopt reforms that support the mental health of Canadian Armed Forces members.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I appreciate that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Doherty.

Ms. O'Connell, you have four minutes.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To the minister, I'm just following up on those questions. I think everyone can agree to the value of a three-digit national mental health hotline, but what is waiting for that caller on the other side is equally important.

Do you feel that somebody who is trained to deal with, let's say, children who are having thoughts of suicide or a nurse who might be having thoughts of suicide would require a different level of expertise from, say, a veteran or an active serving CAF member, so that, on the other side of that hotline, the trained individual dealing in this crisis moment has an understanding of what, for example, a CAF member serving might be facing that might be different and require different training—not less, not better, just different—from another Canadian also in crisis?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I think that is absolutely important, and that is why the health and well-being of our members is my top priority. That is why we are investing in the mental health of our defence team, including launching a suicide prevention joint strategy along with my colleague, Minister of Veterans Affairs MacAulay. We are also providing $17.5 million, through budget 2017, on a centre of excellence focused on the prevention and treatment of PTSD and mental health.

The bottom line is that National Defence offers a wide range of programs and services to meet the needs of our civilian and military members, including 31 in-house mental health clinics and referral options to over 4,000 mental health care providers. This includes dedicated mental health professionals at 31 of 37 Canadian Armed Forces health services centres, a 24-7 phone referral service for access to counselling and peer support for those coping with operational stress. The Canadian Armed Forces chaplain service also provides personal support and can refer members to social workers, psychologists and other medical services—

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I'm sorry, Minister. I don't mean to cut you off. I'm just really limited in time, and I have one last question on that.

With all of these supports that you have indicated as well, when the government is able to set up the three-digit mental health hotline, are you and your department commenting and providing advice that would be specific to that, whether it is with Minister MacAulay for veterans or active members through CAF and the department you represent? Supporting the government in the establishment of a three-digit hotline, like I said, is important, but only if the supports on the other end are there and ready to serve a Canadian or a CAF member in crisis. Are you providing specific expertise in that work?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

We are committed to ensuring our military personnel have access to the robust and high-quality mental health care and services that they need and that they deserve. We are taking a whole-of-government approach to mental health.

My deputy minister, Bill Matthews, may have something something to add here.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

He probably does, but he's not going to have that chance.

With that, Ms. O'Connell's time is over.

Madame Normandin, you have a minute and a half.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is once again concerning fighter jets. I would like to know the degree to which possible pressure from the United States will play a role in the choice of the next fighter jet.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

As I have already mentioned, this process is the responsibility of Public Services and Procurement Canada.

I do not have the information concerning the United States at this time. I will therefore ask my deputy minister whether he has anything to add on this subject.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I'd rather ask you another question.

Since the process is so transparent and independent, can I conclude that pressure from the United States will have absolutely no impact?

Is the minister able to confirm that this will have no impact?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

As I have already stated, this process is independent and falls under Public Services and Procurement Canada. It is not my responsibility.

However, I know that it is an independent and transparent process that does not involve politicians.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, we will have to leave that question there.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have a minute and a half, please.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I'll have to practice my brevity.

I'd like to come back to the question that you weren't able to answer from the last round. Do you support the aims of Bill C-206 in eliminating self-harm as a punishable offence under the military code of conduct?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I'll begin by saying that I do support mental health concerns and support, as I just responded to a previous question. The section you're referencing is not meant as a punitive measure against those suffering from mental health issues. It includes protections within the military justice system for persons who suffer from mental health issues.

Nonetheless, in Justice Fish's report, he recommended amending the Queen's regulations and orders for the Canadian Armed Forces to clarify regarding intent. The office of the judge advocate general has, therefore, recommended that a note be inserted to clarify that self-injurious conduct relating to mental illness is excluded from the scope and application of paragraph 98(c).

The judge advocate general is here with us. If you would like to hear from him directly, I could turn the mike over to him.