National Defence Committee on Feb. 14th, 2023

[Marcus Kolga]

Thank you for that question. It's a great question.

I think we could be using our sanctions regime to greater effect to target Russian propagandists, the ones who are promoting these sorts of narratives that target Ukraine and that target Canadian interests as well. We should be ensuring that those sanctions are enforced and that Canadians, either wittingly or unwittingly, are not contributing to the platforms that are used by Russian state media to target us with this disinformation.

I've recently seen a few Canadians appear on RT. This is Russia's state media channel, which has been banned from our public airwaves for almost a year already and placed on our sanctions list. Canadians should not be appearing on that platform, and they should not be supporting Russian weaponized narratives through that platform.

I think we need to be making sure that our sanctions, when it comes to these Russian propaganda platforms, are enforced so that Canadians don't fall prey to them and do not somehow benefit from appearing on them and that the Russians aren't able to use Canadians to weaponize and legitimize their narratives.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have about 15 seconds.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Should Russia be permitted to have any consular representation in Canada or should all their personnel be sent packing?

[Marcus Kolga]

Should—

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

You can give a yes or no with the time you have.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I find it interesting that when members are told they have 10 seconds left, they ask a question anyway and see if they can squeeze it out.

If you can squeeze that out in 10 seconds, we'll go with it.

[Marcus Kolga]

I question why Russia needs to have nearly 80 diplomats or perhaps more in Canada. That makes no sense to me. What are they doing here?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay. With that, we're going to go to Mr. May.

Go ahead for six minutes, sir.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, thank you for being here with us again to help us with this study.

I know we've just started, but we're increasingly hearing about the risk to critical infrastructure and particularly about how these sectors could be a target of state-sponsored cyber-attacks as a means for adversaries to attack Canada or any of our allies without the use of conventional military means.

In your opinion, what sectors do you see as being under the greatest threat?

[Marcus Kolga]

The ones that are under the greatest threat from Russian cyber-operations are obviously those areas of critical infrastructure.

We've seen over the past few months—at least a year—how our health sector has fallen prey to ransomware. A lot of the same organizations that engage in criminal activity such as ransomware are in Russia. If they're allowed to operate in Russia, they do so with the blessing of the Kremlin. I think there is clearly a threat to health and other critical infrastructure from Russian operators and that they've demonstrated very clearly that they will not hesitate to attack critical infrastructure. They've shown us that in Ukraine. There's no reason they would not do that in Canada or among our allied nations.

I suspect that right now their focus is primarily on Ukraine, but once that focus ebbs, I think the threat to Canada will increase as well.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Is Canada adequately protected, and what should be done to improve protection of those critical infrastructure pieces?

[Marcus Kolga]

I can't specifically answer that. I'm more of an expert on disinformation. My understanding is that CSE is taking a closer look, but I can't specifically answer that question.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Do you have any recommendations on improvements to existing policies or new policies that should be developed in that area?

[Marcus Kolga]

I think that education is probably among the best things. Over the past several years, we've seen that it's really basic cyber-hygiene issues that have opened up some of these major institutions to the theat of cyber-attack. It's just about educating and making sure that those individuals who are operating in those organizations—and, I would say, within the government as well—have strong cyber-hygiene skills, including using strong passwords and such. I think that's where we need to start in order to protect the critical infrastructure and other organizations in Canada.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Should reporting an attack be mandatory?

[Marcus Kolga]

That's a very good question. I would say yes, those attacks should be reported. I don't think we should be sweeping them under the rug. That way we'll have a better understanding of where the threat is.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

How can the federal government better collaborate with the provincial and territorial governments to better defend those critical infrastructure pieces?

[Marcus Kolga]

Again, I can't answer specifically to the relationship the federal government has right now with the provinces or territories with regard to cybersecurity.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Am I good for time, sir?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have two minutes left.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

You've spoken a lot about Russia specifically. Are there other actors we should be keenly aware of at this point?

[Marcus Kolga]

Absolutely. Russia has been doing this for a very long time, but China is becoming increasingly sophisticated. As far as threats go, I think we need to be keeping a very close eye on what China is doing. They also have, again, these developing capabilities, and I'm certain that Canada will become, and already is, a target of Chinese cyber-activity.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

How are China's efforts different from Russia's?

[Marcus Kolga]

Again, I'm not a cyber expert. I can't specifically answer that question. I can't tell you what the differences are between China and Russian threat actors.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Maybe I can ask this in a different way.

You talked about the misinformation and certain events that have happened in Canada over the last number of years. You talked about education. How do we, on the federal side, push that education piece out without it looking political? The idea that it's coming from one party or another could have that connotation.