Evidence of meeting #58 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lise Bourgon  Acting Chief of Military Personnel and Acting Commander Military Personnel Command, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence
Daniel Bouchard  Commander, Canadian Armed Forces Transition Group, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence
Scott Malcolm  Commander, Canadian Forces Health Services Group, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence
Marc Bilodeau  Surgeon General, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Wilson

Cmdre Daniel Bouchard

I would like to add something with regard to the family support system that we have.

In the transition process, we have a family liaison officer for the more complex cases, and there is also a family transition adviser for the less complex cases. With the families and the immediate supporting members, we go through a process to ask these types of questions and to develop understanding of the member who is proceeding on release. It's to make sure that we have these opportunities and also to see whether there are any red flags or issues that need looking into.

LGen Lise Bourgon

I want to add, too, that we do mental health readiness. The road to mental readiness is training that everyone needs to do at different steps in their life—before deploying, coming back from deployment, on basic training—so people are familiar with the spectrum of mental readiness outside of the health services and so that leadership and members are tracking it.

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Would you say that members feel comfortable disclosing if they are going through a mental hardship? Is it often that members will say they are going through something, or do you think masking is something that's regular in the armed forces? These people are so tough and have to be the defenders of our country, so it's very hard for someone to admit when they're going through something.

In COVID-19, seeing how many civilian Canadians were suffering from mental health issues during the pandemic, I can only imagine that with going through the traumatic experiences that someone in the armed forces would go through, it's automatic that they must need help in some ways.

Could you comment on that?

MGen Marc Bilodeau

Yes, there is still a stigma, but it is less than it was 20 years ago. It keeps reducing, I guess, in some ways. The reason is that I think we have normalized what it is to be suffering from a mental health issue. We have made it normal.

There is still a concern from some members that it's going to negatively impact their career, though, and that is the biggest stigma we need to fight against. We're trying to work on policies that will alleviate that. For example, there was a policy in the last few years that you could still be promoted even if you were being actively treated for a mental health condition—for any condition, in fact. This is an example of policy factors that are basically impacting the stigma.

We still need to work on that, though, and I think leadership is critical. That's where the military leadership, the chain of command, is critical in reducing the stigma and normalizing access to care. That's why we're working in partnership with the military chain of command and the members in trying to make sure that we all understand it is a shared responsibility.

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Before I let you go and I let him cut me off, I want to mention perinatal mental health.

It was brought to my attention that once women exit the forces, they begin having children in many cases, and may recognize that the trauma comes out while they're pregnant or afterwards.

I want to put that on your radar, because it's not something that's discussed very often. It's something we need to start talking more about, in terms of offering medical care or mental health care in that area for the younger women who may plan on starting a family soon. That's just so they're aware and your mental health practitioners are aware as well, because it's not something that is regularly discussed yet.

The Chair Liberal John McKay

If that can be worked into another line of questions, that would be very helpful.

Colleagues, that completes the third round. I propose one more five-minute round.

I have Mr. Bezan, Ms. O'Connell, Madame Normandin, Ms. Mathyssen, Mr. Kelly and Ms. Lambropoulos. Mind you, Mr. McKay might like to get into something. I'm just hinting.

With that, Mr. Kelly, you have five minutes.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Thank you.

Getting back to the total health and wellness strategy and its goals, one of them was introducing the workplace harassment and violence prevention centre of expertise. Is that up and running?

LGen Lise Bourgon

That part of the total wellness strategy belongs to the chief of professional conduct and culture, so I cannot comment. It's part of our strategy, but it does not fall into my chief of military personnel mandate.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Are you not sure if it's running or not?

LGen Lise Bourgon

It's running. I just don't know how much progress has been made. More people were to be hired to make it more robust. I cannot give you an update.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Do you know how many complaints or appointments it can handle in a month?

LGen Lise Bourgon

No, sir.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Okay.

On the CAF transition group for transition to civilian life, how many members are currently in the transition group?

LGen Lise Bourgon

I'll give you the floor to Dan.

Cmdre Daniel Bouchard

For our ill and injured posted in our transition group, there are 1,502 individuals at this time across Canada.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Normally, how long is a member in transition?

Cmdre Daniel Bouchard

It varies with each individual. Generally speaking, it's a three-year period, but we have some who have been with us for up to six years.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Is the number who are in transition static, or do you see that becoming a larger or smaller number at a particular moment?

Cmdre Daniel Bouchard

At this time, I don't have the trend with me. My apologies. It's been around 1,500 over the past two or three years.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

How are forces members made aware of the supports that exist?

Cmdre Daniel Bouchard

For our ill and injured and those who are posted to us, there's a service coordinator who will do the transition process with them and will coordinate their services with them and their families.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Regarding the implementation of the women's health framework strategy to support women's health care in the military, how far along is the implementation of the women's health framework?

LGen Lise Bourgon

I'll give the floor to General Bilodeau. He will talk about the health side, and I will just add with regard to the CFMWS and what it's doing.

MGen Marc Bilodeau

We're just starting. We're now building a team. We're hiring people in our clinics, and then the work will start, looking at our research framework, surveillance framework, prevention framework and health care framework. We need people, obviously, to do that, and people are being hired as we speak.

LGen Lise Bourgon

Regarding the CFMWS and occupational fitness, we're a bit more advanced, because we leaned forward last year to ask CFMWS to start delivering on its line of operation. The first initiative is looking at women recruits as they go through Saint-Jean, trying to provide support before they arrive in Saint-Jean from a physical fitness perspective, because we know women have a deficit on that fitness side.

We provide support ahead of time. We now have a physical fitness program, which is available online, to ensure that women, as they're waiting to go to Saint-Jean—they have about three months—can start to work out and improve their physical fitness.