Evidence of meeting #60 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was crisis.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:40 p.m.
Assistant Professor, McMaster University, Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research
I just want to reiterate that my research isn't specifically on the mental health and well-being of serving members, so I can't speak to that. I can speak only to what my statement was before around increased awareness and decreased stigma in terms of reporting. There is more dedicated research looking specifically within the military.
Again, my research is predominantly around veterans and health services.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Mr. Sousa.
Welcome to the committee, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe. The floor is yours for one and a half minutes.
5:40 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll try to be as good as Ms. Normandin. I probably won't come close, unfortunately, but I'll do my best.
Mrs. Lafond, do you feel that service members open up more with the staff at your centre than they do with the military base clinic staff?
If so, I'd like you to tell me why and include some details.
5:40 p.m.
Managing Director, Crisis Center and Suicide Prevention of Haut-Richelieu-Rouville
Thank you for the question.
Yes, we've seen a noticeable difference when service members stay with us.
Our centre is not a military environment, nor is it staffed by military personnel. Therefore, the relationship is established on equal footing with the person staying with us. Moreover, since the person is no longer in the environment that led to the crisis situation, it's easy for them to confide in us about the events related to the crisis. They don't fear any repercussions on their career or their advancement. They let themselves be angry, unsettled and in a bad state so that they can then bounce back and feel better.
So we let people in crisis open up to us without them feeling judged and fearing repercussions for their future. When military personnel stay with us return to their base, they know that the information we share with the base clinic is only given out to keep them safe. So it's not connected to anything they may have said or reported during the crisis.
When an individual is in crisis, they have no control over what they say. However, the fact that we are not military personnel certainly has an impact on how much they confide in us.
5:45 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Individuals who stay with you feel they can trust you more.
Is that it?
5:45 p.m.
Managing Director, Crisis Center and Suicide Prevention of Haut-Richelieu-Rouville
Yes, and we gain their trust quickly.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.
Ms. Mathyssen, you have one and a half minutes.
5:45 p.m.
NDP
Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Thank you.
Ms. Tam-Seto, I just want to finish up. Can you talk to this committee about what you see within your research in terms of missing data points, reporting for the CAF and reports that you would like to see? As an example, the veterans ombudsman made a comment about GBA+ policy discussions that had been done, apparently, and an analysis that had been done but not released and not made public.
Does that happen with DND and CAF? Are those some of the points that you would say are missing? Just give us an idea of what you'd like to see.
5:45 p.m.
Assistant Professor, McMaster University, Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research
I don't know if this committee can help out with this, but what we've been trying to do at McMaster is collaborate more closely and engage with DND to do research with active serving members.
The questions we ask are slightly different from what is asked within the research departments within the institution. There are systemic barriers for us, as researchers in the civilian world, in trying to access military members. I think it's really important for us to access active serving members to be able to do longitudinal studies, to follow them along, to see what that transition piece looks like.
From a research perspective, it would be great if we had free access to the great work being done within DND research departments. It would be great to get any information from Veterans Affairs to help inform some of the questions we have. I think the message that I hope everyone can hear from a research perspective is that if we can work together more collaboratively—providing information and some open transparency—with civilian researchers, we might be able to do better work together, and the work we do would inform us to ask the right questions.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.
Am I to assume that it's Mr. Kelly for four minutes?
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Thank you.
We're just coming down to our last few minutes that we'll have, Professor Tam-Seto. After your opening statement, the first question to you was about the adequacy of medical supports for CAF members. You were quite emphatic in your responses and said that they were not adequate.
Do you want to take some of the time we have left to give the committee some more concrete or specific examples of the inadequacy of medical supports?
5:45 p.m.
Assistant Professor, McMaster University, Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research
Medical support upon release is definitely a challenge that we get. Before we can get into developing cultural competency and help providers in the civilian world, we need to be able to get people through the door. Right now, people are being dropped off. As we were saying here, people walk out the back door from the Canadian Armed Forces, and they're left on their own.
There need to be more people at this table discussing this issue. I spoke to the chair during the break and said that this is not a DND issue. It is a Veterans Affairs issue as well. It is also a provincial and federal government issue. We need people at the table to develop seamless transition.
It is not fair for veterans to have to go seeking out health care on their own, particularly for health issues they have acquired on the job. It is not fair for their families to have to advocate for themselves, because they did not sign up for this. As Canadians, we need to at least provide them with a support system that enables seamless transition.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Okay. In your research, do you know how many serving CAF members are discharged for different kinds of health conditions that could be treated with adequate resources? Let's talk first mental health and those who are discharged for mental health conditions that could be treated.
5:50 p.m.
Assistant Professor, McMaster University, Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research
I would like to believe that every health condition can be addressed and supported. Treated to what extent is really very subjective. I think what we need to do first is to be able to identify how many people are releasing, when and how. I think basic data points are missing—
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Okay, so you don't have data points on that. What about for physical health conditions?
5:50 p.m.
Assistant Professor, McMaster University, Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research
To speed up the conversation, I don't have specific data.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
5:50 p.m.
Col (Ret'd) Richard Pucci
I can provide a comment on that question. I currently sit on the City of Ottawa's veterans task force. Right now, the latest survey and numbers coming out of DND to us show there are about 800 veterans in the Ottawa area without a primary care physician.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Thank you. That's a response, I think, more to the first question.
5:50 p.m.
Col (Ret'd) Richard Pucci
That's right. I didn't want to jump in.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Feel free. That's important information for the committee.
On the second one, then, I'm trying to assess, with the personnel crisis that we have in the forces, whether there are members who are discharging who could have had either a physical or mental disability treated to render them still able to serve.
Are people being forced out for lack of access to health care?
5:50 p.m.
Col (Ret'd) Richard Pucci
When I was deputy commander of the health services, I was quite aware of all the capabilities, and we put our best foot forward. I think every man or woman who presented to a clinic across the country received the best medical care that was offered at the time.
While in uniform, I received outstanding medical care. I think it was very adequate; it met all my demands, as well as those of the men and women under my charge.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
I can't get a question and answer in 15 seconds, so I will cede the floor.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all our witnesses for being here.
Colonel Pucci, thank you for your service.
I'm going to sound a bit all over the place here, because you have all made comments today that have interacted.
Colonel, you talked about your experience after you transitioned. I think you said you had two years of access to a care team.
Is there a level of service that every retiring and transitioning CAF member gets? I'm not suggesting that they take advantage of what's offered to them, but is everyone offered the same thing?