Thank you very much.
Evidence of meeting #7 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was threat.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #7 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was threat.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:55 p.m.
NDP
Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Since we have so little time, I would like to remind witnesses that, hopefully, if they have anything to add, they can certainly do so in writing and submit it to the committee.
My question is again around what we heard on Monday. A witness talked about how it takes seven years and a million dollars to make a soldier.
Mr. Fadden, you talked about that being one of our gaps in terms of that retention and the ability to have soldiers right there, as we of course know. Could you expand on your thoughts on that? I know that you were getting into it with Ms. Normandin in her short minute.
5:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I'm simply noting that recruiting is becoming increasingly difficult. That's not particularly difficult to understand, given the bad publicity the military has had. Retention is also a problem because generally speaking, when the economy is not in bad shape, people leave.
Part of the difficulty is that people are increasingly of the opinion that the military lacks the tools to do what it wants to do. People don't join the military to go to Lower Mandible, Manitoba—my apologies to Manitoba—to sit in garrison and do nothing interesting.
To the earlier question about UN peacekeeping or peacemaking, we have to do something outside of the country that has the possibility of having a real effect. We aren't even meeting our top numbers now in the military. If we cannot do that, we're in very bad shape. We do not have enough people right now, given the new space, cyber and other activities that we're going to have to deal with.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Ms. Mathyssen, we're going to have to leave it there.
Ms. Kerry-Lynne Findlay, you have three minutes, please.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good to see you again, Richard.
In your opinion, should we prevent or restrict Chinese investment and access to certain sectors of our economy, like precious or rare earth minerals?
5:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I think we should enumerate those publicly and make it very clear that we're doing that for national security reasons.
I don't think we should be ashamed of doing that because there's no reciprocity with China on any front. The possibility of a Canadian company investing in one of these strategic sectors in China is effectively zero, so I do believe we should do that. Again, I think we should do that in concert with our allies.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Taillon, what is your view of China's influence and operations in Canada and its strategic objectives in this country?
5:55 p.m.
Private Academic, As an Individual
They're looking for vassal states that can provide them with resources, a market and no problems. They don't like a bilateral relationship in negotiations. They want to overwhelm the individuals economically, politically and, in some cases, socially.
The other thing that really is concerning is that education becomes vitally important. I think Mr. Fadden alluded to it. We have to educate the Canadian public on the threats and on the cyber front. China is a full-spectrum operation basically being conducted non-kinetically.
As I alluded to in my remarks, drug warfare is one of their big issues. Between January 2016 and March 2021, we lost 22,828 Canadians who died from opioids. The cost is tremendous, not only in lives and potential. What I find really concerning is that if you want to destroy a nation, you destroy it from within. The United States has lost over 100,000 people a year to drug issues. A lot of these opioids are coming in from China.
If you look at just pure costing.... When I chatted with police officers about, unfortunately, taking up an individual who had passed away on the street, that was between $20,000 and $30,000 because you have police officers and medical people there, and then you take them to the hospital. Losing the numbers that we did, $30,000 accrues to $684,840,000. If you take it at a lower price of $20,000, that's $486,560,000.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
I'm sorry again. We're going to have to leave it there.
Ms. O'Connell, you have the final three minutes.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Thank you. No pressure but I'll try to get to my questions as quickly as possible.
We've heard about Russia's and China's more recent co-operation in some things. We also know that both Russia and China have demonstrated an interest in the Canadian Arctic.
My question is in and around whether you think that perhaps they will work together in those endeavours or whether that could actually be a pressure point between the two countries in terms of access to the Arctic or a stake in that area.
Mr. Taillon, you could maybe start.
6 p.m.
Private Academic, As an Individual
The Chinese view themselves as a near-Arctic state. They're also desperate for protein. There are fisheries up there. It's going to cut the steaming time between China and their markets, ideally in Europe, possibly by eight to 10 days. Yes, there is a definite interest in the Arctic.
This also poses a possible threat for Russia. Russia's made it very clear its North Sea route across the northern part of Russia is internal waters. Russia has made it very clear. Not only that, but Russia reinforces it by having major military bases up there and large scale exercises, including an airborne operation. Having been a paratrooper myself, leaping out at minus-30 can be a bit of a shocker, particularly at night.
Meanwhile, there are discussions whether the Canadian Northwest Passage is Canadian. I think there are going to be some interesting clashes on the northern side for both of them.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Do you think they will clash with each other, or will they act as a combined threat to Canada?
6 p.m.
Private Academic, As an Individual
They may clash with each other. They're not natural allies. All we have to do is look back at the Ussuri River incident. Right now, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We know how well that worked out in some areas for us in the past, and the west in particular. It's a problematic issue, and it's something we have to keep an eye on.
To have the Russians basically support the Chinese on Taiwan means that the Chinese will be more than happy to support them on the Donbass region. So, watch and shoot, as we say.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Ms. O'Connell.
On behalf of the committee I want to thank both of our witnesses.
I'm particularly thankful, Mr. Taillon, that when you got on these peace missions, nobody could shoot accurately so that you're here to share your wisdom with us.
Mr. Fadden, it's good to see you again. As always, you're concise, brilliant and insightful.
This is very helpful to our study.
The meeting is adjourned.