National Defence Committee on Nov. 9th, 2023

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

We've heard at this committee, too, that there should be more recognition for that. People who deploy domestically don't receive medals. They don't receive those commendations. They don't receive a lot of the salary increases. Can you talk about that? Is that important?

[Christopher Banks]

It is, especially when we're talking about the administration side of what happens during a deployment. On an expeditionary deployment, there are phases to deployment, and there are a lot of checks that happen along the way. That is especially true on the back end when we're talking about health care and mental health checks.

As far as recognition is concerned, as I said earlier, for a lot of members, this may be their only deployment. I'll just highlight what happens in Alberta. They have Operation Lentus going all summer nearly every summer. For a lot of members out west, they may do months; over a career, they maybe accumulate three, four or five months of domestic deployments, which is, by and large, the length of an expeditionary tour.

For most deployment medals, it's 30 days to get a deployment. I, personally, have more than 30 days of domestic operations spread across the three.... There are people with far more experience than I have, and they will never ever see a medal for it and never ever see recognition. Maybe their unit gives them a commendation, but that's maybe; it's not structured.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

That's very different from what we heard from the German representative in the previous session. They actively provide that to people who are volunteering as part of that service, so that would be a significant difference.

[Christopher Banks]

There is a lot to be said about the honours and awards system for Canada, and I think the veteran community is particularly loud about that. It is very notable in the military that medals are few and far between. You get a medal for deployment and if you're an officer you might get OMM or an MSC, but if you are just running and gunning as an infantry soldier or a combat engineer or a sailor, you may not get anything for everything that you do.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

We have 25 minutes worth of questions in roughly 15 minutes. I'm going to cut it back to three minutes each, one minute for the Bloc and the NDP.

With that, we go to Mr. Bezan for three minutes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Sergeant Banks, thanks so much for joining us. I thank you for your service. I'm sorry to hear that you had to leave because of an OSI. I see before me a military hero who is still passionate about the military. It's unfortunate that we lose that type of skills set and somebody who has the ability to keep training and train the new recruits coming up.

You talked about morale and the crisis that we have right now with recruitment and retention within the Canadian Armed Forces. General Eyre said here that as of August 31 the regular force was short 7,862 troops, and the reserve force was short 7,605 troops, for a total of almost 15,500 troops.

On top of that, you talk about sitting around on furlough and not being able to train, exercises getting cancelled, and not having ammunition to go out there and practise. Right now we have 10,489 troops who are under-trained and undeployable, so your testimony here today builds upon these hard statistics.

We know that the reserves and the Rangers have gone out and done a lot of the respite. Right now the immediate response units within CAF to go out and help with disaster assistance are mainly on the four big army bases: Edmonton, Shilo, Petawawa and Gagetown. As a reservist, how much did you incorporate with the IRUs as they were organizing Operation Lentus in the various regions? What type of extra training should we be offering under Operation Lentus? Is it wildfire training? I know you're swinging sandbags. I'm from Manitoba; I've swung a lot of sandbags over my life and whenever I go there as a civilian, I always go and stand with the Canadian Armed Forces because they know how to work and know how to get things moving.

When I was younger, I could keep up. I'm not sure I could now, but I'll just say that I thank you for your service again on all your deployments including on Op Lentus.

[Christopher Banks]

To speak to the training question, for Operation Lentus-type operations we're not going to be able to get into a pre-deployment phase prior to deployments. Op Lentus deployments are always let's go, we have a fire, a flood, something, we have to go. That is where the IRUs are best to be first in because they are regular force so they have the ability to say, it's fire season, it's snow season, it's flood season, and they can do that kind of training.

Our reserves won't have that benefit. As far as training is concerned, that training needs to be built into the training cycle pre-emptively. We need to be training for our Operation Lentus-type deployments as part of our training schedule and that's happening in some places, but it's not happening across the board.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Bezan.

Mr. Collins, three minutes, please.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for their attendance today.

I'm going to go right to Deputy Premier Ellis.

I know as a long-time municipal councillor that we were always seeking support from the provincial government as it relates to ensuring that we had all the resources available to use in the event of an emergency, everything ready for the implementation of our emergency preparedness plan.

What should municipalities and non-profit organizations expect from their provincial partners and the federal government in terms of having the appropriate level of resources to respond in the event of an emergency?

[Mike Ellis]

Preparation is key. That's why the Alberta Emergency Management Agency works very closely with all municipalities to make sure they are prepared in the event of an emergency, but again, what made this one unprecedented was the number of crisis points throughout the province.

I will just say this. We've embarked on a study to do lessons learned and make sure we are prepared if unfortunately we have something in the future.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

This study of course is about the role of the federal government. What role should the federal government play in that process?

[Mike Ellis]

Let me just expand a little bit here. In a couple of our communities in northern Alberta, like other areas in northern Canada, we're very much isolated. I'll use Fort Chipewyan as an example. It is only accessible by a barge. It took the military to come in with the Hercules plane to really save people and bring them to safety in other areas of Alberta.

Making sure people are prepared is one thing. We called in the military as a last resort. They were wonderful, and they did what they needed to do. However, all communities need to be prepared with emergency management in their various provinces to make sure that they are prepared for whatever that emergency is.

I look at the Canadian military as augmenting and supporting the great work that's being done by us.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, if I have time, I'll just ask Mr. Flannigan a very quick question.

Our previous witness from Germany talked about the program that they have. Of course, here in Canada we not only have recruitment issues; we also have issues with volunteers across the country, especially since the pandemic.

How do we incentivize Canadians to participate more so that we're not calling on the Canadian Armed Forces as often as we are today with the increasing number of events that we have across the country?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have 15 seconds.

[Dr. Mike Flannigan]

Retention and recruitment are critical issues in the Canadian Armed Forces and in fire management. Having a career path, proper training, incentives....

Our situation is different from Germany's. We're 30 times larger with half the population, so what works in Germany won't work here, sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Ms. Normandin, you have one minute.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have a question for Minister Ellis.

Mr. Ellis, you mentioned that using the army was really your last resort. Given the expected increase in the number of crises, could better financial support from the federal government help you continue to use the army as little as possible in future crises?

[Mike Ellis]

The simple answer is yes. One of the things that we could certainly use assistance with from the federal government has to do with mitigation when comes to building more firewalls and flood mitigation.

The simple answer is yes. I think there's about $1.2 billion for mitigation that is distributed right throughout Canada. It sounds like a lot of money, but when you think about how big Canada is, it's actually not a lot of money.

Certainly, helping us with those sorts of things would, of course, decrease any reliance on the federal military.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have one minute.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Sergeant Banks, I believe you brought forward some recommendations to this committee in a written form. It just hasn't been circulated yet. Is that correct?

[Christopher Banks]

I'm not sure if it's been circulated, but I did submit a brief, yes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay, perfect. We'll look forward to that.

Dr. Flannigan, I want to ask a quick question in terms of the manufacturing and usage of water bomber aircraft.

Canada has the Canadair water bomber. It's been ordered by many countries. It could certainly help, I think, with what we are dealing with here, and yet that hasn't happened.

Could you talk about the creation of a national fleet of aerial firefighters and the inclusion of that aerial water bomber?

[Dr. Mike Flannigan]

Yes. Having a national fleet to move to the places where we expect extreme fire conditions to put the fires out when they're small would be a great help. It would have to be at the call of, or working in tandem with, the province or landowner, but it would be very effective.

Europe has already ordered planes from Canadair, and they're booked up until 2029. If we want planes, they're going to have to increase production or we're going to have to wait until the 2030s.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

Mrs. Gallant, you have three minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you.

Minister Ellis, we've been hearing testimony lending itself to a national task force, perhaps something like the corps of engineers that the U.S. has, but instead of taking from the military, which is already depleted, it would be a civilian force.

Do you see a national entity like that being able to work with the provinces, or should any civilian force to help mitigate disasters be purely civilian and provincially run?