National Defence Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2023

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Again, if you don't mind, I'll turn to the general. It's his report.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Well, we're straying a bit from the subject matter of the committee for today. That's a more appropriate question for the supplementary estimates.

If you can tie your response to how this might affect the ability of CAF to respond to the aid to civil authority—

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I can go on to the next question, perhaps, and allow or encourage him to have those available for the next meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay. You can launch it that way, and then we can carry on.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Moving forward, families of CAF members are continually losing confidence in CAF's ability to provide proper services. A six-point drop between surveys is extremely worrying. What are we doing to stop this?

I'm asking these questions because troop strength and the support of their families are relevant to how the CAF is going to be able to support Operation Lentus.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

It really is tied to investments we have been making through the SSE initiative, beginning in 2017. Although I am encouraged and believe that we are making progress, it also identifies that much work remains to be done.

We all know that in 2014, defence spending plummeted in this country, to below 1% of GDP. It created a situation that was not supportive of the Canadian Armed Forces. Through SSE, we are increasing defence spending by nearly 70% over an eight-year period—

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Okay, so when can—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

—to try to recover from that incredible deficit that we inherited.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Minister, when and where can we expect to see the investments that you're talking about when we have billions of dollars of cuts coming forward?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I'd invite you, for example, to drop over to the 22 Wing at North Bay, where we just opened a brand new medical care facility for members there. That's one of the investments being made right across the Canadian Armed Forces.

Again, a lot of that infrastructure was allowed to deteriorate significantly, until we began making significant new investment in defence beginning in 2017. We have a lot of work to do to catch up, so—

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

We're investing and we're cutting. It's contradictory.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

No, there's no contradiction. We—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mrs. Kramp-Neuman.

Mr. Collins, you have five minutes. I'm sure you'll stay with the subject matter that is in front of us.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Absolutely. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister and guests.

I want to pick up where you left off, Minister, which is on your reference to long-term care homes in the province of Ontario. You highlighted that the CAF was the first call, instead of the last one there. I think that's rightly so, in terms of the situation we were in regarding protecting public safety, protecting lives and helping individuals in that circumstance in the province of Ontario.

For me, that highlights that our partners in this space, from an emergency preparedness perspective, didn't do everything right. They didn't make the proper investments. I would point to several studies that have been made on long-term care facilities in the province of Ontario and elsewhere that point to a lack of provincial investment. If I use that as the example, it's an instance in which a lack of provincial investment led to your being the first call.

The general talked earlier about municipalities and provinces and their contributions. Who among the group is ensuring that provincial and municipal resources are appropriate and that the emergency preparedness plans are in place to appropriately respond to some of these events?

You've highlighted very clearly today that the budgets have been ramped up in order to respond to Operation Lentus. You've talked about the strain it has on the CAF.

In a perfect world, that call doesn't come. I think it speaks to some of the investments that need to be made at the provincial, territorial and municipal levels to ensure we are the call of last resort, rather than the first call. You referenced a good example there, in terms of when that happened during the pandemic.

I'm not asking you to call anybody out publicly, but who is looking at our provincial and territorial partners, their budgets and their plans to ensure that the appropriate resources are in place so we are the last call made during a time of emergency, specifically related to natural disasters?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I think I can provide a certain amount of reassurance here.

First of all, not only did we send the CAF in to save lives, but they also provided us with excellent public reports as to the conditions they encountered when they went in there. I think those public reports were very helpful to our provincial partners in identifying the significant problems that existed there.

As Minister of Public Safety, first of all, and then as the Minister of Emergency Preparedness—now succeeded by my two colleagues, Mr. LeBlanc and Mr. Sajjan—I convened what we call FPT tables, or federal-provincial-territorial tables. I think we've learned a lot of lessons and made sure we bring national indigenous organizations to that table as well. There were a great deal of communications and lessons learned from each of these major national disasters that we have faced.

As an example, in the aftermath of the floods that took place in November 2022 in British Columbia, I convened a table that included all implicated British Columbian ministers, federal government ministers and the national indigenous organizations. We came to the table; we met many times and we worked through all of the different learning of that natural disaster. We talked about how to make proper investments in mitigation and also in infrastructure and building back better, as it were. We talked about the impacts on agriculture, the fishing industry and transportation. It wasn't just limited to fighting fires or floods. It was right across all of government.

There are mechanisms that have proven to be very effective in the aftermath of these events. One thing we hear clearly in all of those discussions is a very sincere concern that we also have to address climate change, because climate change is driving the accelerated pace, frequency and severity of these events. It is a whole-of-government response.

Frankly, my experience in British Columbia gave me great encouragement that we can do this.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

From a budget perspective, do we turn to provincial auditor reports to ensure they're doing everything they can from a disaster response perspective, or...? I think the greatest service we can do for CAF members in all areas is to ensure they are the last call and that sufficient provincial and territorial resources are in place so there's less strain on an annual basis with our services and our members.

I haven't been able to wrap my head around that. Our budgets are increasing. You've been very clear today. We're providing sufficient support. It's happening more frequently and it's placing a strain on our service both at home and abroad; that's been made very clear to the committee.

I'm just not certain, when it is a shared space among three levels of government, who's holding the other partners to account as the first responders when it comes to these events.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We're going to have to leave that as a question with no answer.

Madame Normandin, you have two and a half minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

We've been told that one of the only things that military members can count on when they participate in domestic missions is less time to spend with their families.

According to the witnesses who spoke earlier, people who take part in Operation Lentus, for example, don't receive medals. We heard about public gratitude for the military members. However, could the Canadian Armed Forces show greater acknowledgement for the work done by the military members taking part in Operation Lentus?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Madame Normandin, I think you've asked a very important question. I think we need to do a better job of acknowledging and rewarding the members who answer this particular call to service.

As you mentioned, there are service medals and ribbons that members get when they're deployed overseas, but their experience in their domestic deployments can be just as challenging. It accounts for the same amount of time away from family. It can, in some circumstances, be a quite difficult and traumatic experience. It really taxes their ability to respond, and it's quite impactful on them.

It's an issue that we've had some discussion on, and I'm convinced we need to do better in finding ways to recognize that service. We're working on that. I think it's an exceptionally important point.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

We know that the reservists would probably like to have long‑term contracts, for example, in order to be posted to immediate response units.

What's stopping reservists from receiving specific contracts for this type of work?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I apologize. Could you be more specific in your question? I'm not sure I understood.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'll hold the clock while you repeat the question.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

We know that some reservists would probably like to have a six‑month contract, for example, in order to be posted to immediate response units. They could lighten the workload of the armed forces.

Why can't reservists be given contracts to serve in the place of the regular forces?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

It's not an area where I have a great deal of experience, although I've come to really appreciate the incredible work of the reservists.

If I may, I will turn to the chief of the defence staff, who I think has more experience in this arena than I.

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair, each reservist's situation is different.

In Europe, for example, we'll be using more reservists for our mission in Latvia. However, in general, it's difficult to have a large cohesive group of reservists ready for operations.

What we're finding with our reserve deployments and the effect on readiness is that if they can get only two or three weeks away from their civilian jobs, and that is consumed in a domestic deployment over the summer, they cannot train and get that collective and individual training in the rest of the year.

That is part of the readiness impact that we're having, as well.