National Defence Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2023

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

As I mentioned, last week I had the pleasure of having a conversation with some of our CAF members. I'm going to give a plug, because that's important.

As we are asking them to be there as a last resort, sometimes the exit strategy is not always as obvious for our members. I want to recognize and thank them for their hard work.

In that sense, in the recovery phase after a disaster, what sort of help is the federal government providing?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

One is that, absolutely, the Canadian Armed Forces should be there only for the emergency response. When the provincial level of resources can handle it, that is the time they need to exit. I had many conversations before, and now, as the Minister of Emergency Preparedness, I have the same expectation.

When it comes to the recovery, it is important that we work very closely with the province on what type of support will be needed through the disaster financial assistance arrangement, especially for people who have lost their homes or businesses. You can imagine the anxiety that people are feeling.

We have been pushing out resources to help make sure that people know what is needed, sometimes right down to the municipal level, so that they have an understanding. The municipalities have to apply to the province, and once the province makes the application to us, we then provide the appropriate support.

Obviously, we have a bit of a unique relationship within the territories. We want to make sure they have the appropriate support faster, and we're working on that as well.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much.

My last question is, how does the federal government assess the future risk of extreme weather events for Canadians? I think that's very important.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

We have.... What is the actual program called again? Is it NPAS?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That's actually the last question and the last answer. I'm sorry about that. Can you work your response into some other question?

Ms. Normandin, go ahead for two and a half minutes, please.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Sajjan, you were minister of national defence from 2015 to 2021.

Were the Canadian Armed Forces already being called upon to deal with climate emergencies back then?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Yes. My first experience with the CAF deploying to disaster was actually to Winnipeg during the floods, when I was serving. I got a first-hand look at what is actually needed, and more importantly, how proud our members feel when they respond.

When I was Minister of Defence, I wanted to make sure that when our Canadian Armed Forces are deployed, they're doing the work that no one else can do. We would sometimes have discussions around that. At the same time, we want to make sure Canadians get the right response. Sometimes, the Canadian Armed Forces isn't the best response, even though it can respond quickly.

We'd have these discussions, and the government operations centre plays a very important role in making sure that's done well.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Would you have expected certain things from the minister of public safety, who was someone else at the time?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question?

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

While you were minister of national defence, did you have any expectations of the minister of public safety when it came to requests to call upon the Canadian Armed Forces?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

At that time, the portfolio of Minister of Emergency Preparedness wasn't there. It was actually the Minister of Public Safety, but it was the same thing.

Yes, we would have important discussions about the expectation that..., again, making sure that the work was going to be done, making sure the Canadian Armed Forces were going to be deployed for what they were actually needed for.

A lot of times we had discussions where.... Pulling out was a bit more difficult because we would get additional requests for certain things that a lot of other labour forces could be doing. Therefore, the exit strategy is also extremely important. That way, the Canadian Armed Forces can get back to their training role.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have two and a half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

To pick up where I left off in terms of that toxic gear—cancer-causing agents—for firefighters, I was glad to see that Sherry Romanado's Bill C-224, which you voted for as well, works on this. I want to make sure that we're investing in that properly and that it's part of an overall plan to help people who are, in addition to our men and women in uniform in the CAF, putting their lives on the line—to help them with that toxic gear by supporting this bill that you did vote for.

In addition to that, I'd like to ask this: Your government promised to train 1,000 new community-based firefighters and invest in their equipment. Again, linking this to my previous question, has the federal government directly funded the training of 1,000 new community-based firefighters yet, and how much have you spent on that specific equipment?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Yes, we are investing in training 1,000 firefighters. That's actually done by NRCan; it has the responsibility for that. I don't have the exact numbers of how many have been trained—

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Can you get us the exact numbers, Minister?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Yes, we can provide that.

One thing I can say is that one key lesson I did learn as I was visiting a lot of the firefighters is that what they actually need is senior-level training. I met some of the folks who were conducting the course. Federally, we funded the course that firefighters would need for the senior roles. That allows for a much better response.

You can have all the firefighters you want, but you need to have the leadership and the people with the right capability to be able to take, for example, 20 or 30 firefighters and send them off to deal with that.

It's a type of training that is going to be very important to put into a system so that you can have the right response.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

That's fine, but the announcement was about the equipment, as well. It was focusing on that toxic gear. Are we ensuring that the funding that has been promised by this government is going into safe gear?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I can say that Minister Wilkinson.... I was there for the announcement of the agreement with British Columbia and a number of other provinces. I'll find out exactly which provinces have signed up for that agreement on additional firefighting equipment.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

Mr. Bezan, you have five minutes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, welcome back. You bring a unique perspective, having been a veteran and having served on domestic operations and in aid to civil power. You've been the Minister of Defence. Now you're here at Public Safety Canada.

When the provinces call in, I'm assuming they call you when they need the Department of National Defence, the Canadian Armed Forces, to step up and help.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Is that a question, sir?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

The provinces call you when they need help.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I have most of my counterparts' phone numbers. We do talk. However, the most important work is making sure that the emergency operations centres communicate. This is something that the government operations centre does extremely well.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

However, the decision of whether or not we deploy and provide that aid to civil power, to the provinces or the municipalities, is made under your direction.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

The request for assistance, yes, comes under my—