National Defence Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2023

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

You talked about some of the ways in which the Canadian Armed Forces assists in emergency disaster relief with aircraft and airlift capability, yet your government is cutting the budget to that department. How will these cuts enable you and your team to better prepare for when there is a need for aid to civilian power?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I think Minister Blair answered that question quite directly. The savings they are looking at are from consulting, from various studies or from travel expenses. Nothing is being cut from the operational side.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

We can get into the operational side and how they're not even spending the money that has been authorized by Parliament, but....

Minister Blair actually gave quite a candid answer to my question. He acknowledged that cutting the Department of National Defence is not going to help achieve any of the responsibilities or goals of the department.

Given all of the competing needs of the CAF, the chief of the defence staff has said we are in the most urgent threat environment since 1939. We have a trend toward increasing domestic deployments. We have a crisis around recruitment and retention.

How will cutting this department's budget by $1 billion not impact your ability to keep Canadians safe?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

What I can say from the emergency preparedness side is that through the work that is ongoing, one thing we can count on is that if the Canadian Armed Forces are needed, they will have the ability to respond.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Okay. Is it your testimony that the Canadian Armed Forces will continue to make do, and do more with less?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

No. What I'm saying is that if the Canadian Armed Forces are needed, they have the ability to respond, as Minister Blair has clearly identified.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

That's notwithstanding a $1-billion cut to the department's budget.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I tend to disagree with that, because I think Minister Blair answered that question quite directly.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

With respect to the retention and recruitment crisis, there is a concern that has been raised that if there is a need for foreign deployment, there may not be sufficient personnel for domestic operations. Are you concerned about the number of troops available if there is a simultaneous need for both foreign and domestic...?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

This is something I think Minister Blair has already addressed. If you have more questions for him—

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

He didn't address that in our—

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Then I think you would have to ask him those questions.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Okay. You have to plan for emergency preparedness, though.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Yes.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Do you have these conversations with the minister?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Regularly.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

He has assured you that they have the personnel.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Yes.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

This is despite 16,000 vacancies and despite having 10,000 troops who are not deployable.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

One thing I can say is that if Canadians need support from the Canadian Armed Forces, and there is no other resource that can do what the Canadian Armed Forces can do, the Canadian Armed Forces will be called upon. I have the utmost confidence that they will be able to respond.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Kelly.

Madame Lalonde, you have five minutes.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for joining us. It's a real pleasure to see you today. I remember vividly a few years ago, when, in your former role, we had the pleasure of working together to help support some efforts in Ontario.

I want to redirect you a bit. You're in this new role. With the level of experience and expertise that you have developed, what's the main cause of the increased use of our Canadian Armed Forces to respond in domestic operations?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

The main response has been for extreme flooding events and wildfires as a result of climate change.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

As you've noted, we are seeing an increased number of those climate-related disasters. I think we can collectively....

I had the pleasure of meeting some CAF members last week. They disclosed to me.... I think they are always very happy to respond, but they are the last resort, and certainly, this is important.

Is the federal government [Inaudible—Editor] to reduce the risk that pauses, for Canadians, the increased number of climate-related disasters?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm glad you asked that question, because that is the key focus of our department on the preparedness side.

I want to outline that it started with floods in March and went into wildfires at the same time as we were having floods. In some places, like in Northwest Territories, the community was hit with extreme floods and wildfires as well. Let's not forget the hurricane.

During this time, we were focused on the response and recovery. Now we're also looking at analyzing all the different areas where we had extreme disasters, to see what types of things we can do for prevention. There's mitigation. Adaptation's also going to be important. We're talking to the mayors about what type of training will be needed from their municipal perspective, and also what things they need to do differently.

In some cases, like West Kelowna, there's obviously a discussion going on in terms of firebreaks. As homes are being built closer to forests, what types of firebreaks are needed? Municipalities are doing their calculations.

Even in rural communities, there's a greater conversation on infrastructure. Communication lines are a key component, as are roads and railways for supply lines. All that work is currently going on.

We know that climate-induced disasters are potentially going to be worse. How do we look at preventing or reducing the impact so our response doesn't have to be as strong as it is? We're going to have to adjust what we're doing. That's what we're focused on now: What things can we prevent?

In terms of the response side of things, the key thing is putting the right resource in the right place at the right time.

How we manage this is having a situational awareness. For example, imagine a wildfire situation like what was taking place in the Northwest Territories and Yellowknife. At each level, we're already stacking up resources to make sure there is no gap in the response. That will always be there, but what we're doing now is about what could have been done or what we need to do to prevent the impact on a small town or prevent the evacuation. That's going to be the key.