Evidence of meeting #85 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was housing.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
I would think so. It trickles down to everything else. Without stable housing, you're going to be stressed. You may not be able to find work to keep that stable housing. It's a vicious cycle.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
It exacerbates the other stresses on family life in the forces.
As an Individual
I would think so, yes. It's been my experience from hearing from other spouses that it is the single most stressful aspect of being a military family.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Fixing this would be critical to fixing the crisis of morale in the forces. Is that correct?
As an Individual
I'm not sure that fixing housing would alleviate all of the stressors, but it would probably alleviate some significant stressors. I couldn't adequately state what would assist in raising significant morale.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Let me ask the question in a different way. Do the issues around housing affect morale in the forces?
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Thank you.
They would also affect retention. In your capacity as an advocate for military spouses, are you aware of people leaving the forces because of the stresses of access and availability of housing?
As an Individual
I have heard of families that, because they're being posted to a region in which they cannot access adequate housing, have made the choice to release, yes, but I am not aware of people leaving a base because of housing. It's more of the move aspect of individuals.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
The prospect of moving to an unaffordable housing market is a trigger for members to leave the forces.
As an Individual
I can't speak for everyone, but I can definitely recall a number of people I know personally who have chosen to release versus moving to another base because of unaffordable housing.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
We're pretty clear about the affordability now. I want to go back and focus on the actual condition of the housing.
I don't know how much time I have left.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Good. I have some time.
Could you give us more information, if you have any more detailed information, about conditions of base housing and how they might also affect the quality of life for serving families?
As an Individual
I can't speak adequately to overall housing. I can speak to how individuals with medically complex children have traversed housing, and some of the barriers that they have seen. I know that is a significant stressor, but unfortunately, I cannot speak to how that is impacting families overall, CAF-wide, because I only live on one base.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
I'll ask Sergeant Banks to weigh in on the same point, if he can.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
It's about the housing conditions you've observed. I really appreciate that you've given us valuable testimony about issues beyond housing, but the report that we need to table in Parliament is about housing, so I'll ask you to keep your remarks on housing.
Sergeant (Retired), As an Individual
Just so we're clear, there's a difference between transient housing and living quarters. For living quarters, Alyssa would probably the better person to ask, but for transient quarters, where I spent most of my experience, because I never lived in the PMQs, yes, absolutely, these buildings are falling apart.
I can think of P-50 in Petawawa as a prime example. That's where I did my first leadership course in 2002. That building, 20 years ago, was falling apart. Utilities were falling off the side of the building, brickwork was falling, paint was peeling and there was talk of lead paint and asbestos in the building. Right now, 20 years later, that building is still in use.
Liberal
Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses today.
It's a very interesting opportunity we have here. We have three witnesses, one of whom has been a serving member, one is the spouse of a serving member, and one has parents who were serving members. You have some experience with the lifestyle.
I want to invite you to talk about the relocation aspect, if I could. It's clearly the source of hardship and difficulty, especially with some of the issues we've heard today around affordability.
I'd love to hear from all of you. Do you have reflections on whether we've reached a point where the Canadian Armed Forces should do some reflection on the whole concept of relocation, or at least make some adjustments to it? What might those be? What are the feelings or observations you have about that? I would love to hear those.
Maybe, to make it easier, we'll start with you, Chris.
Sergeant (Retired), As an Individual
One thing I would say when it comes to transfers is to keep in mind that, to answer an earlier question as well, there are intertrade transfers to get a preferential posting. People will leave the trade they're in because where their trade is centralized in those bases, there is not a good housing market and there are not good situations. They will change trades to get into a different job.
It's hard to make a change, because there is a practical reason for the transfers to move people across the country. You don't want to have units that are understaffed, but at the same time, it's also looked at as an experience builder. It has a lot of truth in it.
Saying that we need to change the system, we need to change the way we do it, not what we're doing.
Liberal
Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS
Thank you.
Ms. Hill, happy birthday, by the way. I just outed you.
Ph.D. candidate, Queen's University, As an Individual
That's okay.
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here on my birthday.
