National Defence Committee on Dec. 7th, 2023

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes, ma'am, I do.

If I may, let me go back to say that I invite the members to familiarize themselves with the work that has been done, with the panel that has now been stood up. I think there's been a great deal of work done, and let me also acknowledge that there's much more work to do.

Mrs. Kramp-Neuman also asked about some of the investments that we're making in the Canadian Armed Forces. I would remind her and this committee that in 2012, Canada's expenditure on defence dropped to 1%, the lowest in our country's history. It only passed more—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We'll have to leave that answer there—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

—in 2013, when it actually fell below 1%.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

We've been digging out of a very deep hole left to us since then.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Kramp-Neuman.

Mr. Collins, you have five minutes.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I want to take us back, Minister, to the Ukraine support that you referenced in your opening statement.

You talked about the half a billion dollars that's included in the budget and some additional supports. Of course, we know that our government has been investing in many areas. That includes support for 200,000 Ukrainians who were displaced by the illegal war in Ukraine and have made their way here to Canada. It includes the long list of sanctions that were included in the Special Economic Measures Act. Of course, there's the previous support that we've provided in budgets since the start of the war.

One thing that I've noticed domestically is the slippage in support for the Ukraine community and for the Ukrainian president, his government and his soldiers. The Leader of the Opposition has sent out a directive to his party to halt support for Ukraine. We noticed that recently with the Canada-Ukraine agreement that was referenced by my colleague—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Mr. Chair, that's a complete misrepresentation. We're not voting for a carbon tax. We still support Ukraine unequivocally, including giving them more weapons. As a matter of fact, if you look at the budget here, military aid going to Ukraine will decline over the next three years—

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Chair, the issue is they make comments. They can dish it out, but they can't take it when it comes back the other way.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

This is moving from a point of order to—

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

That's the problem we have with the people on the other side of the table. So be it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Order.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

This is not a point of order. This is a point of interruption.

Mr. Collins has the floor.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Misleading the committee—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Do you have another point of order?

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

What's your other point of order?

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

The point of order is that this member has misled the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That's the same point of order. I've already ruled it to be a point of interruption.

Mr. Collins, you have the remaining....

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I would like to get back to the support for Ukraine. Of course, we've done everything we can, and we're seeing slippage on the other side of the table in terms of a lack of support.

I'm wondering if you could reiterate the importance of the investment we're going to pass this evening in terms of the resources it will provide to Ukraine, its government, its people and its military.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes. Thanks very much. I can take you through some of it.

For example, we're requesting $49.85 million to reinforce Canadian support for Ukraine through Operation Unifier. For the last eight years, we've been able to train through Operation Unifier nearly 40,000 members of the Ukrainian armed forces. In my conversations with the defence minister from Ukraine, he has said that training really was key to their survival in the early weeks of the war and to their continued success in fighting back Russia's illegal invasion of their country.

We know that training has continued to be modified. It includes such things as sapper training, for example, to deal with mines in that area. Canada is contributing fairly significantly to the F-16 training that's going to be taking place in Poland. We've been working very closely on that.

In addition, the money we have earmarked in these supplementaries—approximately $500 million for Ukraine—will enable us to provide them with the munitions they are asking for. There's a wide range of artillery munitions and other munitions. We'll continue to contribute financially to air defence systems for Ukraine. We are part of a number of important NATO coalitions, which are providing support through various initiatives to Ukraine.

I think, most importantly, we're listening to them. We're working with them. When they said, for example, “We're going into a winter campaign. We need winter uniforms. We need winter tents. We need warm winter clothing. We need ammunition from you,” they were very explicit about what they required, and we responded to their request. We've been able to deliver it to them.

Another thing I would like to mention is that the Canadian Armed Forces also brought their aircraft to bear. They're working out of Prestwick. They have been able to transport tens of millions of pounds of material, not just from Canada but from our allies, to get it to Ukraine and get it to their front lines where they need it.

We're going to continue to support them in every way possible. That support is a result of listening to what they want. I'm having a conversation.

Also, one of the things we've heard very clearly is the need for ammunition. By the way, I'm hearing exactly the same thing for the need for ammunition for the Canadian Armed Forces just today. We have now ordered more than four times as much ammunition for next year as this year because we know the Canadian Armed Forces need it and we know the Ukrainians are going to need it, and we're going to make sure that we have it so that we can provide it.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks, Minister.

Mr. Chair, do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have a minute.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Perfect.

Minister, I'll turn my question to the international scene. We're seeing the election of very right-wing conservative governments across the world and some slippage internationally for the Ukrainian community and its war against Russia.

What are hearing from your contemporaries in terms of what's happening in the United States? We see the Republicans, much like our Conservative colleagues across the table, playing political games with the Ukrainian support, particularly those who are supporting Trump. We're seeing the same across the table from those who are supporting the new leader of the official opposition.

What are your contemporaries saying on the international stage in terms of the importance of continuing the international support effort, not just here in Canada but internationally, for Ukraine, as well as some of the issues you just talked about?