Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to both of the witnesses. You gave terrific testimony.
Mr. Walbourne, I've been in public life for many years. I've found that when you deal with problem areas of an organization, sometimes it takes someone such as you to shine a light on a problem to try to raise awareness and create a healthy tension to implement change. I've found over the years that where there's push-back, sometimes it requires policy changes, as you and Mr. White have highlighted here today. Sometimes it requires a change in personnel among leadership that just doesn't want to buy in. Sometimes it's gone on for so long in an area of an organization that it's embedded in the organization. To use Ms. Mathyssen's term earlier, you need wholesale “culture change”.
You've been at this for a number of years. Most would point to you and say that you're an expert in this field. When you've implemented policy changes and changed leadership or you've done both and you still haven't found a change, what are the next steps?