National Defence Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. We appreciate it.

In previous meetings of this committee, we heard from witnesses who told us, almost unanimously, that the integration of the Canadian Coast Guard into the Department of National Defence was very positive.

I'd like to hear your opinion on that, Mr. Mes. Is this the right time? Do you find it positive?

[Marc Mes]

It was very positive for all the people who work for the Canadian Coast Guard, for the people who work on a ship's crew and for the people who work in the regions. Being part of the Department of National Defence family really creates a positive feeling.

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Smith, you talked about the national shipbuilding strategy. If we look at the investments that are going to be made over the next 20 years, we see that two Arctic and offshore patrol ships, six program icebreakers, two polar icebreakers, up to 16 multi-purpose icebreakers and up to 61 small vessels will be renewed by 2045.

How do you see these investments in terms of the partnership with the Department of National Defence? How are you going to use them?

[Andy Smith]

Thank you for your question.

This is an opportunity for us.

Obviously, some of these ships haven't even been built yet. However, today we have an opportunity to meet the country's needs, including those of the Royal Canadian Navy and the Canadian Air Force, to pool some equipment and to add common equipment to today's fleet or to the ships that will be built over the next 20 or 25 years. That helps us ensure that we have common equipment, common training and common maintenance for the entire supply chain to ensure higher efficiency.

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

Thank you.

How will polar icebreakers improve Canada's presence in the Arctic and the way it protects its northern border?

[Marc Mes]

First, they will enable us to be present in the Arctic for 12 months of the year.

Second, our presence will be real proof of sovereignty.

It's to be there for 12 months, for a whole year, to be that sovereign presence for the Government of Canada and for Canadians, not only with the Polars but with all our vessels. Those are the key elements.

It's also search and rescue. As the Arctic opens up and we see climate change, there's going to be an increased need to ensure that Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard are able to respond to incidents. Potentially, we see more cruise ships that are interested in the Arctic. That's of concern to us. That's a higher level of risk. We have to be ready for that, and we have to be able to respond.

It's about security, sovereignty and search and rescue, as well as support for our science. That's a key element in understanding science and our waters and supporting our science departments across the government.

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

Thank you for that.

I have one last question for you. Sometimes we don't have enough boats to train sailors. Other witnesses have told us about the possibility of training sailors with your equipment.

How do you see that? Is that an option? If so, how would it work?

[Marc Mes]

Mr. Chair, again, that's a very good question.

Absolutely, we're looking at interoperability, at training opportunities for both the Coast Guard and the navy, and at being able to use all of our platforms for training. We are going to need more Coast Guard personnel; the navy is going to need more personnel. We have to be able to use the platforms that we have, from a Government of Canada perspective, to be able to train. If they have engineers who need to train on our ships, why wouldn't we use our ships to bring people into the Canadian Coast Guard to help them train and get the experience, so that when they get on a naval vessel, they're able to go forward?

[Andy Smith]

Obviously, we have the Canadian Coast Guard Academy in Cape Breton. It is a top-notch facility for training bridge officers and marine engineers. It has a world-class ice navigation simulator.

We have already invited the Royal Canadian Navy officers. They will soon be coming to the academy to fine-tune their ability to navigate through ice, which is a specialty, of course.

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Smith.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you, Mr. Watchorn.

Ms. Lori Idlout, I acknowledge that your hand is up on the screen. Again, we'll have to ask the committee for unanimous consent for your intervention, given that you're not a member of the committee.

I'm going to put it to the committee now. I'm going to request unanimous consent to allow Ms. Idlout to speak.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

No.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Yes, I would like to seek unanimous consent to ask the witnesses whether they agree, given that Nunavut is the only jurisdiction without a search and rescue base, that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Ms. Idlout, I apologize, but you're taking up time from the existing members, who have not provided unanimous consent. I apologize to you.

I'm now going to pass it over to Mr. Savard-Tremblay.

You have two and a half minutes, please.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I'll go back to the issue of transferring the Coast Guard to the Department of National Defence. While changes are needed, what springs to mind is that it will require a mandate change and militarization. I am not saying that it is desirable—you as experts know this—but presumably it is a necessary part of the change.

Earlier, you seemed to be saying that this was not the case. However, some analysts believe that part of the fleet will have to be armed in order to properly be accounted for as a military expenditure. Again, I'm not commenting on that, but I'd like to hear your point of view.

Are you confirming that certain ships could absolutely be modified to transport military personnel or defensive equipment?

[Marc Mes]

I can answer that first, Mr. Chair.

Right now, we are taking part in missions where we transport naval officers so that they can carry out their mandate. That's an obligation we have under the Oceans Act. We have a mandate to support other government departments, and the same goes for the Royal Canadian Navy. If it needs a platform, we are able to provide it and support the navy in fulfilling its mission.

[Andy Smith]

To some extent, we are already doing that. If our ships are in the north doing exercises with Royal Canadian Navy ships, we transfer fuel from one ship to another, even now. Would we be able to transport equipment or personnel from one place to another? The short answer is yes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I'm going to come back to the issue so we can end it once and for all.

Ms. Eschuk from the Union of Canadian Transportation Employees said last June that a number of members were wondering whether the new mandate would still match the one they had been hired for. You're telling us today that you're not going to change anything at all.

I have only 20 seconds left, so thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Ms. Gallant, you have five minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Has a Canadian Coast Guard vessel ever been fired upon, even by a drug runner, for example?

[Marc Mes]

Yes, it has.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

What were the circumstances?

[Marc Mes]

The last case that I remember was near Cornwall, in Akwesasne.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

Regardless of the official collaborative interoperability, we've seen that there have been attacks on different coast guards in the South China Sea. Given that the regular insurance companies will not cover an act of war or civil insurrection, what measures are you taking to ensure that the Coast Guard members are protected in the event that it is one of those two exclusions that regular insurers have?

[Marc Mes]

As a Government of Canada state vessel, we don't carry insurance. We're a commercial—