Evidence of meeting #11 for National Defence in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was arctic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Dr. Charron, would you agree with that?
Director, Centre for Defence and Security Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
Yes, I would. They're old. Metal fatigue is a real thing, and it's a generation-four fighter aircraft that's going up against potentially generation five, five and a half and six.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
In terms of surface to air in the Arctic, do we have anything and do we need anything?
As an Individual
At the moment, the surface-to-air capability the Canadian Forces have is forward in Latvia.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Okay, so we have no Patriot systems in the north.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Do we have a long-range, stand-off surface-to-surface weapon like the Typhoon?
As an Individual
The announcement is that the Canadian Forces will be obtaining HIMARS, the artillery rocket system. That can also fire a longer-range missile, but I have not seen any indication that we intend to purchase Typhoons.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
We're not actually moving forward on that.
October 30th, 2025 / 9:50 a.m.
As an Individual
We're moving forward on HIMARS, absolutely, but on Typhoon I don't know.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Okay. My understanding is that for Arctic defence, the ground army is not that important. It is mostly fleet, and mostly air and mostly sea. Is that correct?
As an Individual
That is correct at present, although, again, I agree with my former commander that we'll be fighting through but not necessarily over the Arctic.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Okay, good.
Russian subs can go under the ice and we can't, or do we have anything that can actually go under the ice?
As an Individual
I believe the Victoria class might be able to penetrate some of the edge of the ice pack for a short time, but certainly the intention with the submarine procurement program is to purchase a new generation of submarines that will be capable of operating under the ice.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
We need sub bases in the Arctic, then. Would you agree with that?
As an Individual
Not if we get the appropriate platforms. They could easily be staged from Esquimalt or Halifax on patrols of the Arctic. With the Coast Guard, I don't think we would actually need additional infrastructure in the Arctic to support those vessels.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
My understanding is that it takes weeks for it to get from either the east or the west coast to the Arctic.
As an Individual
My guess is that with the proper platform it could take up to a week to get to the top of the Arctic, yes, from either side.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Okay, good.
Dr. Charron, would you agree about the submarine bases, that we don't need them in the Arctic?
Director, Centre for Defence and Security Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
Not at the moment, and again, this is where we have the benefit of allies, and we can't forget that. That's why we are part of an alliance whereby we can benefit from others' infrastructure.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa
Mr. Anderson, I'm sorry, it's time.
Chris Malette, you have up to five minutes.
Liberal
Chris Malette Liberal Bay of Quinte, ON
Thank you, Chair.
My first question is for Dr. Charron.
In your estimation, how are the Department of National Defence's efforts to expand pan-domain awareness, particularly in Canada's Arctic and maritime approaches, progressing?
Director, Centre for Defence and Security Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
They're progressing slowly, but it's because it's incredibly complicated. We have to agree on a cloud system to house all the information and make sure it's secure. At the same time, we're running up against deadlines like the 2027 U.S. zero trust-compliance end date to make sure that legacy systems to NORAD aren't cut off because they're not zero trust-compliant.
This is incredibly difficult, and we have to take the Canadian Armed Forces with a digital backbone that hasn't appreciated and is only now appreciating the importance of AI and quantum mechanics, which are going to require eight different networking systems.
Liberal
Chris Malette Liberal Bay of Quinte, ON
Okay, and further to my colleague Ms. Lapointe's question, are there any challenges that must be overcome in developing DND's pan-domain command and control concept? How's NORAD ensuring interoperability between Canada and U.S. systems in its upgraded command and control architecture?