National Defence Committee on Feb. 9th, 2026

[Christopher Hernandez-Roy]

It's not just Africa. China has mines in Africa, but it also has a very large presence in Latin America, in the southern cone. It is especially present in Chile and Peru, which are the largest copper producers in the world. The majority of their exports go to China. They also export to North America, but the raw product is mostly sent to China, where it is refined. China has mines around the world, but they're concentrated in Africa and South America.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Do you want to add anything, Ms. Steyn?

[Dr. Elizabeth Steyn]

I'd love to.

China has, for the last 20 to 30 years, had in Africa—and you can hear from my accent that I'm from South Africa originally—a phenomenal foothold. China has this infrastructure-for-concessions model whereby it will go into a country, construct infrastructure, such as a port, and in return get a mine concession. In that way, it has really built up mineral expertise throughout Africa. It's in, for instance, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, which is the biggest producer of cobalt in the world and is a very big producer of copper. It's very strong in Zambia. It's in Zimbabwe, in Angola and in South Africa. We find it everywhere in Africa.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I was also wondering about something else. In another committee a few years ago, I proposed a study on Canadian mining companies. We know there's a certain laxity when it comes to what constitutes a Canadian mining company. Registration is extremely simple, but in many cases, these mining companies aren't actually Canadian.

Do you have any information indicating that the Chinese are registering as Canadian mining companies when, in reality, they are Chinese interests?

[Dr. Elizabeth Steyn]

I gave you the example of Cobre Panamá. We see them operate in Africa very often. It will look like a Canadian mining company and is known as a Canadian mining company, but all of the employees are Chinese.

[Christopher Hernandez-Roy]

In the South American context, under the Biden administration's Inflation Reduction Act, there were tax incentives for countries that had free trade agreements with the United States. They could have tax rebates on minerals that were exported to the United States as long as the companies that were exporting had less than 25% Chinese ownership in them. As a result of looking into that—we did some research at the CSIS on this—we found that a number of copper companies in South America are held by other companies that are held by other companies that are, in fact, specifically designed to hide their Chinese ownership. This seems to be a widespread practice.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you.

Mr. Kibble, you have five minutes, please.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Professor Steyn, you mentioned—and I guess we're seeing it across the world—China exerting control over minerals and trying to hide it. You gave examples in Africa and South America as well, whether it's employees or control of the minerals or the exports. Should we expect the same here, and should we protect ourselves from the same here in Canada?

[Dr. Elizabeth Steyn]

We should. I have seen companies operating in Canada in which we have the same thing. If they are listed on the TSX, then we should ask ourselves who the shareholders are behind them.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

That's perfect. I would love a list of all of those companies.

In terms of defence, are there any critical minerals that countries such as, say, China do not have access to and that we have access to here in Canada? If so, is this something that we should be selling to them or keeping for ourselves?

[Dr. Elizabeth Steyn]

I don't think there are any critical minerals that China does not have access to.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

That's fair enough. Maybe we should consider that for some other countries as well.

Mr. Hernandez-Roy, should we expect our critical mineral sites to become active targets for our adversaries, either economically or strategically? As we discussed earlier, China seems to want to play by its own rules.

[Christopher Hernandez-Roy]

Do you mean active targets in the sense of for acquisition?

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I mean for acquisition, for control, for predatory practices or even as, God forbid, military-type targets—or for sabotage.

[Christopher Hernandez-Roy]

We've engaged in some pure speculation about what would happen if the Chinese one day decided to land in some remote location in the Canadian Arctic because there happens to be a critical mineral deposit there and then established a presence. What do we do about that? I think that's just pretty much in the fantasy realm right now, but it's worth thinking about.

In terms of those minerals that are critical to our national well-being and certainly to our defence, they need to be protected against any sort of foreign ownership, or at least reviewed against any foreign ownership, and safeguarded against that.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I mentioned strategic, but what about such things as cyber-attacks that will shut down and control and damage our production? Is that a risk from countries like China?

[Christopher Hernandez-Roy]

Certainly, but it's not just for the mines. More importantly, it's the infrastructure that can be targeted. I mean, we've seen targets against the Port of Montreal, for instance—

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Targets—

[Christopher Hernandez-Roy]

Cyber.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

—from who?

[Christopher Hernandez-Roy]

Foreign adversaries; China is certainly one. Russia, I think, was the particular source in the case of the Montreal attack.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

The government has declared China as our new strategic partner. Should this include sharing our defence-related critical minerals with them and maybe helping them stockpile, or is it something we should guard against? Is there a risk to that?

[Christopher Hernandez-Roy]

I think the Prime Minister, and I'm just speaking from what I've seen in the press, has made it clear that the partnership is entered into with eyes wide open. There are certain purely commercial relationships, such as oil and foodstuffs, but the trading relationship will not rise to the level of certain goods or certain materials that are sensitive to national security.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

The term “strategic partnership” was used. In your opinion, should we define what that is limited to in terms of what a strategic partnership is? Should that include access to or supplying of critical minerals to China?

[Christopher Hernandez-Roy]

I don't think we should be supplying, but again, it goes back to what the definition is of critical minerals, for instance.