Evidence of meeting #18 for Natural Resources in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sands.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Could you tell me, of the total amounts granted to your business, what percentage was granted by the Government of Canada for research in the oil and gas sectors over the past fiscal year? Do you have that information?
4:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Research, Canadian Energy Research Institute
I'm sorry, I don't have it, but I will be happy to provide it.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Perfect. Here's my other question.
I'd like to talk about economic studies. I'm not an economist by training; pardon me for that. You've studied the sources of revenue from oil sands operations. It seems to me that, when you conduct an economic study, that you also have to determine costs. However, in your study, we only see revenues. You disregard costs. I'm wondering about that.
What are the infrastructure costs for Alberta as a province, and for the cities concerned? What are the oil sands operating costs using current methods? How much does it cost for health care, for Aboriginal people, among others? In fact, I find it curious that we're being presented with a study focusing on only one component, revenues, and that costs are disregarded.
Could you tell me why your study focuses on a single component, revenues?
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
If I could interrupt here for a moment, Madame, we didn't ask the witnesses to come here today to get challenged on their points of view. We asked them to give an economic impact of the oil sands. There will be other witnesses who will provide some of those things you're asking for. But that was not the intent of this meeting today, nor of the groups that are presenting today. They were asked specifically to give the economic impacts of the Alberta oil sands industry. They're not on trial here; they came to give us information and to present the point of view.
I just wanted to clarify that.
4:35 p.m.
Vice-President, Business Development & External Relations, Canadian Energy Research Institute
If I might add to that, CERI is capable of doing exactly that kind of research, and we would willingly do that kind of research. We've looked at the cost side, in terms of the capital investment, operating costs, and so on. The other piece, which we haven't looked at, has been the socio-economic cost, but those are things we looked at in some specific areas for the Alberta government. We don't have those results with us today. But yes, we're capable of doing that, and you're right, it's an area that should be studied in more depth.
Does that answer your question, Madame?
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Yes, thank you. My other question, if I have any time left, Mr. Chair, is for Mr. Donihee.
I'm still gathering information, and I still have things to learn about the various functions of the agencies and commissions that have direct links with the Department of Natural Resources. You say in your brief that you are responsible for regulation, construction, operation and even the integrity of interprovincial, federal pipelines and so on.
Do you also regulate responsibility for pipeline maintenance by the companies that build them? Do you establish that regulation?
4:35 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, National Energy Board
If the pipelines cross a provincial border, it will be us. If the pipeline is entirely within the province of Alberta, it's the Alberta provincial agency that's responsible for regulating that pipeline.
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
For all matters pertaining to maintenance, for example?
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
To your knowledge, is there regulation on that matter?
4:35 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, National Energy Board
Yes, of course. There's an agency locatedin Calgary; it's
the Alberta Energy and Utilities Board,
which is very professional in its way of doing business.
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
That's about it for this round, but we'll come back for another round. Thank you.
Mr. Bevington.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It's very good to hear the presentations today from all groups here.
I had some questions as well, and I'll start with Mr. Donihee of the National Energy Board.
You're an independent tribunal. Do you receive a mandate in any fashion from the federal government at this time?
4:35 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, National Energy Board
Our mandate is the National Energy Board Act, which gives us the construct of the organization and sets out in law the mandate of the board. Aside from that, we do not receive a mandate from government to act in any way other than in the best interests of Canadians.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
If the government determines that the best interests of Canadians are to reduce energy intensity in the oil and gas industry, would you be charged with ensuring that the projects coming before you have this as part of their structure?
4:35 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, National Energy Board
Unless the act was changed in some way to introduce that kind of limit, cap, or some form of constraint, the NEB would continue to act as a result of the law of the day, which is the way we conduct ourselves at the moment.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Take for instance the case of liquified natural gas coming into Canada, where it's not a provincial responsibility to determine the public interest in allowing this development. In conducting the regulatory reviews of these projects, would the National Energy Board have a say in putting forward those national interests?
4:35 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, National Energy Board
To this point in time, we regulate the import of LNG; we do not regulate the infrastructure that is built in terms of supporting the receipt of that LNG. Those are provincial undertakings and dealt with in that way.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
For instance, with the Gateway pipeline that was proposed, to Kitimat, where we were looking at the potential exporting of bitumen to other countries, would you once again be engaged in determining the national interest in the disposition of that resource?
4:40 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, National Energy Board
In that instance, we would, most definitely, because that would be an interprovincial pipeline that would traverse from Alberta through to B.C., and then ultimately we would make a determination, based on the interests of Canadians as to the export of that oil.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
And likewise if you're changing the use of existing intercontinental pipelines for the exporting of raw crude.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Okay.
With the Mackenzie gas project, you've also indicated that you're going to be doing your regulatory work based on the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. Is that correct?
4:40 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, National Energy Board
I may need a little help on this one.
The MVRMA belongs to the territories. We don't have direct oversight to it. There are interactions between us, but it's not our--