Natural Resources Committee on May 2nd, 2007

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Maybe I could ask the last two questions, and maybe, Mr. Russell, you'd want to add your question on, and we'd just answer it in one round.

First, what can the federal government do beyond what it is? You have green enabling funds. You've mentioned a number of other programs you've been participating in. Obviously, we're looking at ways the federal government can aid in efforts such as yours in greener electrical consumption. What are your thoughts on what you would like to see the federal government doing that it isn't doing today?

Second, if you could take a look at the efforts that you've undertaken, is it possible for you to quantify in percentage terms what that means to global energy consumption within your municipalities? In other words, in percentage terms, how much of a difference have all these efforts made in terms of the global utilization of energy within your municipality? I ask so that we can get a scale of what impact these efforts are making.

I understand that you talk about the dollar value and savings, but the big issue for us in energy consumption is that while we make gains, there are all kinds of new appliances and things being added, so I'm wondering what kind of impact it's had on the overall load.

Mr. Russell, did you want to toss your question in for good measure? No?

There you go. Go ahead.

[Richard Quail]

Those were tough questions.

I can certainly research that; it's an excellent question. Relative to global community energy consumption--what's our percentage and what does that represent in terms of savings--I can't answer that off the top of my head.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

On the issue of the federal government and its role, would additional...?

[Richard Quail]

Research and development, and the ability to support risk-taking adventures around new technology--I think those are critical. The continuation of funding for upgrades to infrastructure and working through the endowment fund with FCM have been very important factors for our community. We're a newer community in a growth mode, so that's our context.

[Barb McDougall-Murdoch]

Again, I would have difficulty in saying what role our municipality has in terms of making a contribution towards the reduction of energy consumption in the community on a global scale. We are actually just in the process of doing a greenhouse gas baseline emissions inventory for the next calendar year, so we can look at achievements that we've made since our 1990 baseline, when we set ourselves a target of a 30% reduction of greenhouse gas emissions in our community. We're likely well on our way to meeting that goal, because one of the initiatives in our community was the planting of 12 million trees, but we still have a long way to go in terms of our contribution on a global scale. That's something I'd have to look into as well.

In terms of the role the federal government can play, I would certainly build upon and support what Richard said about support for some of the existing programs, for the generation of new programs that will help support some of the initiatives and technologies that are being developed, and for things happening at the local level. The local level of government is the one closest to the people, who are in a good position to enact change on many levels when you start to talk about the individual, as well. Programs that support that work, such as the one-tonne challenge and EnerGuide for houses, are very valuable to us.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Mr. Chair, being as kind and generous as you are, do you think you could get Mr. Russell in, recognizing there won't be another round? I think he has just one quick question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

I'm going to go to Mr. Tonks very briefly.

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

My question is very short.

Ms. McDougall-Murdoch, you mentioned local champions. Who was the local champion you had in mind when you said that?

[Barb McDougall-Murdoch]

It was a gentleman by the name of Paul Graham. Paul was a plants engineer responsible for our waste water treatment plants. Paul sat at the municipalities table when the federal government commissioned the NCCP, the national climate change process. Paul sat at the municipalities table and really championed this work throughout the community. He made tremendous inroads within the political organization in our own communities, and with senior staff and management. We developed an incredible rapport and respect with our EarthCare partners within the community. Paul is now the CEO for the town of Blue Mountain.

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Right.

I think Tom Davies, who was the original mayor--I can't remember the name of the municipality prior to amalgamation--and the regional chairman, could also be considered one of those champions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Mr. Ouellet, you have five minutes, please.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I think that what we have heard this afternoon is fantastic. We knew about it, but it was great to hear. Thank you for coming to tell us about it. But the loveliest words that I heard this afternoon still came from Mr. Gourde, who said that the government is going to do exactly like you, and I applaud him warmly, because that is what has to be done.

Perhaps you may not be able to equal Mr. Gourde's fine words, but I would still like to hear a little more from you about the role that the federal government could play in these programs. You also spoke with Mr. Tonks about a champion. It seems to me that this is going to take a champion in the federal government. Something else is needed too. You said that there was a lot of awareness-raising and education.

If the federal government were to embark on an energy-saving program on a huge scale, like a national scale, do you not think that a number of awareness programs would be necessary? How do you see that?

[Richard Quail]

The initiatives that we've undertaken around energy management have been an evolution. The deregulation of electricity in the marketplace in Alberta has been an evolution. The introduction of innovation has then created the investment climate for entrepreneurs to move in and to capture. We have a threshold right now in Alberta of a maximum of 960 megawatts of green wind power allowed into the grid, because of challenges with respect to variability of wind--peak flows of wind--and the system operator's capability to ramp down the wind when it exceeds the volume allocated to that generation source.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Let me stop you, because I do not think that you have grasped what I meant. I was talking more about Sudbury, where, as we were told just now, there are a number of programs to educate the people. I am not talking about techniques, but rather of people becoming aware that they can change their energy lifestyle. My impression was that this was very important, at least in Sudbury.

Your city is a little different. There have been several programs in similar cities in the United States, particularly in California, for 30 years or so. I see you more as a new bedroom community grafted onto a large city, whereas in Sudbury, they have taken an existing city, a manufacturing and mining city that was, let's admit it, dirty when they started, and they have made it into a green city. That is a little different, I find. I see Sudbury's awareness programs as a model that will have to be put in place all across Canada in order for the federal government to realize the potentially enormous energy savings.

[Richard Quail]

I'll conclude and hand it over to you, Barb.

My initial point was with respect to the regulatory and policy framework that needs to evolve over time, and that's the role of government--to allow for these innovations to occur. I couldn't agree more with respect to education; our greatest success in education is getting into the schools and educating the next generation. It's the next generation that is making these innovations happen.

[Barb McDougall-Murdoch]

I would like to support that as well--educating youth in our community, as well as educating individuals. Engaging and reaching out to the public and involving them in this process has been vital to the success of the actions outlined in our local action plan.

A number of key implementation tools have been identified as a result of that. One of the most important is something called community-based social marketing, or CBSM. It's changing how we behave, and this is true whether you're talking about waste reduction, recycling, making homes more energy efficient, using modes of transportation other than the private automobile, or eliminating pesticides on lawns and gardens. What community-based social marketing does is remove the barriers out there that exist to prevent somebody from moving forward with a positive action.

In many of our projects we've incorporated CBSM tools. We've worked with an international expert by the name of Doug MacKenzie-Mohr. Many of you who are familiar with him will be familiar with his book, called Fostering Sustainable Behaviour. He does workshops worldwide.

We see a great value in recognizing that education and awareness alone will not necessarily lead to behavioural change. It's implementing community-based social marketing strategies to identify the issues, remove the barriers, and put programs and mechanisms in place to get the desired result or change or action. I think that a campaign, a national backdrop that would support local initiatives, must include elements such as that.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would just like to add one more little thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Why don't you save it for your wrap-up at the end of the meeting, your traditional closing address?

Go ahead, Mr. Trost.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

I have to run to see a constituent very shortly.

I'm curious about how you picked and prioritized projects. Was it purely financial--this is where the most savings are, so that's where it starts? I'm asking how you prioritized your programs, your targets, or whatever you were going to do. What were your basic criteria, and how did you prioritize what you did when it came to projects?

[Richard Quail]

I can briefly respond: need.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Now, is that financial?

[Richard Quail]

Well, it would be a waste water treatment plant beyond capacity, or a recreation facility in dire need of expansion, a number one community facility. What sort of energy--

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

So the squeaky wheel got the grease.

[Richard Quail]

The priorities evolved in the community, and from that the opportunities were assessed. The opportunities are influenced by the funding sources that are out there; the solar applications were a result of a very innovative funding program that Alberta put in place. It's a combination of demand, need, and funding source availability.

[Barb McDougall-Murdoch]

I would briefly build on what Richard said. We had a number of quick starts that were a result of some immediate needs with respect to infrastructure, but in terms of prioritizing initiatives happening in our community, that was as a result of our local action planning process. It was a community collaborative. When we started this process with 38 community organizations, we struck five different working groups--residential, municipal, commercial-industrial, institutional, and business plan development--and those individuals, those community partners, really charted the course for our future and identified the priorities within each of the respective areas to move initiatives forward in our community. So it's not only our--