Evidence of meeting #51 for Natural Resources in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was solar.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Catherine Bell NDP Vancouver Island North, BC
I will.
I have one more question. What are the specific needs of the renewable energy sector in terms of training and skills and the technological part?
4:15 p.m.
Engineer, Business and Technological Development, Enerconcept Technologies Inc.
If Canada were serious about really pushing the industry, one of the things we did.... As the president of CanSIA, I signed a $400,000, over two years, contribution agreement with the industry. We were trying to establish an industry training program with that. You're talking very minimal amounts here. If we're serious about it, we could train people. We could train plumbers. We could train people, again, as they've done across the pond. We could train ventilation people to install that, so it is not something mysterious for them. We need that training and we need a unified, structured industry that is accredited. A mature industry has accredited contractors doing the jobs. That's part of the industry expansion process.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Thank you, Ms. Bell.
We're going to start on this side with Monsieur Gourde.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
How many thousands of kilowatt/hours are required to make the first phase cost-effective for an average family with two adults and three children living in a single-family dwelling? Would it be 20,000, 30,000 or 40,000? You talked about 3¢ per kilowatt/hour, which would be very cost-effective, but what level of consumption is required to get this price?
4:15 p.m.
Engineer, Business and Technological Development, Enerconcept Technologies Inc.
I'm talking here about an industrial context, where a great deal of air is required. In such cases, the heat produced by solar collectors costs 3¢ per kilowatt/hour. If we do the same exercise for the residential sector, we find a production cost of 5, 6 or 7¢ per kilowatt/hour to heat a home of the type you described. As I said, the heating season in Canada is long, but there is a lot of sun. Using existing technology and the software and calculation methods of Natural Resources Canada, we can produce energy at a cost of 5 to 7¢ per kilowatt/hour, without any subsidies.
However, I should point out that the cost of such a system is $5,000. You will be paying 7, 8 or 9¢ per kilowatt/hour for your electricity, so it is slightly more expensive. That means that it would take 10 or 12 years to recover your investment. But since Canadians change houses every seven or eight years, according to the statistics, they are not interested in this. We need to develop incentives, a program that will eliminate this barrier for people who want to try solar energy.
When people realize they will have to spend $5,000, their reaction is that they could spend this money on other things. They're very pleased to find out that the cost is 5 or 6¢ per kilowatt/hours, but they become discouraged when they find out they have to spend $5,000 and only recover that amount over 12 years. The cost is already going down. What we have to take into account is the cost of producing the energy. It becomes possible to consider this option if we look at it in these terms, rather than in terms of recovering one's investment.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Solar panels produce a great deal of energy when the sun is out during the day, and produce less during the night. Is this energy stored in the home, does it go back to the grid, or is it stored using hot water or batteries?
4:20 p.m.
Engineer, Business and Technological Development, Enerconcept Technologies Inc.
All those options exist. Storing energy can often extend the payback. The technology I am talking about is solar collectors installed in homes with no storage capacity. The energy produced costs 5, 6 or 7¢ per kilowatt/hour. In Canada, we need a lot of electricity and heat over the long winter season. So there is no need to store the energy.
Technically, these are gadgets that make it possible to lengthen the period of time during which the collectors can be used during the year, but we do not need them. Personally, I avoid these gadgets, because they increase the cost per kilowatt/hour and require more maintenance, which suggests that this is an expensive technology. That is precisely what I am trying to tell you today: the existing technology is not expensive. Technically, solar energy can be stored. This option exists. Is it an advantage? I think so. Is it cost-effective? Not necessarily in all cases.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
You spoke about maintaining the panels once they're installed and connected to the electrical system of the house during the day.
4:20 p.m.
Engineer, Business and Technological Development, Enerconcept Technologies Inc.
The panels are guaranteed for 25 years and require almost no maintenance. Since they have no moving parts, they make no noise. In addition, they do not produce any smoke or anything else.
The same goes for air collectors. The famous Solarwall collectors or other types of air collectors require no maintenance. They do not freeze, they do not overheat in the summer, and the only moving part is a small fan. Only water systems require maintenance, and the Canadian industry has no training to do this. The local plumber would not know what to do with a system of this type, which requires having specialized training.
If the objective is to provide 22% of the hot water needs to the industries that require it, that is entirely possible. So maintenance is simply something that does not need to be taken into account for the institutional and industrial sectors. A solar system does not require more maintenance than a hot water heater in order to produce hot water, certainly not in the institutional sector.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Can solar be adapted to any conventional heating system, using electricity or any other form of energy?
4:20 p.m.
Engineer, Business and Technological Development, Enerconcept Technologies Inc.
Yes. If someone says that it cannot be adapted, that is because they don't want to adapt it. Something can always be done.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
If solar is cost-effective, why are Canadians so reluctant to take the leap and move to solar energy? If it takes 10 years to recover their investment, very little is required to make this technology really attractive.
4:20 p.m.
Engineer, Business and Technological Development, Enerconcept Technologies Inc.
The obstacles are not technical in nature. Some programs need to be reviewed and better funding is required. The Canadian government could provide support by offering some funding. The length of time required to recover the investment is long, but, as I said before, the cost of producing energy with no subsidy is lower than the cost of producing electricity or natural gas.
Let's put solar energy on an equal footing with other types of energy, which are allowed to advertise the initial investment. No one has to pay $15,000 to pay for a dam the year it is opened. People living around Pickering, Ontario, do not get a $15,000 bill for the nuclear power plant. The situations are the same. Let's put the same mechanisms in place for solar and let the market forces do their job. Then, there would be maximum uptake for solar.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
So if a family living in a single-family dwelling spent about $5,000 initially, it would save between $500 and $700 in electricity costs each year, with the time required to recover the investment—
4:20 p.m.
Engineer, Business and Technological Development, Enerconcept Technologies Inc.
That is a reasonable assessment.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
If people want to save even more, the installation cost would be between $15,000 and $20,000.
4:25 p.m.
Engineer, Business and Technological Development, Enerconcept Technologies Inc.
Yes, but once again, I come back to the cost of producing the energy. For the next 20 years, the system would produce energy at a cost of 5 to 6¢ per kilowatt/hour, which is less than the cost of electricity. It would not be unreasonable to say that the time required to recover the investment is 10 years.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Can the excess electricity be put into the grid at the moment?
4:25 p.m.
Engineer, Business and Technological Development, Enerconcept Technologies Inc.
That can be done in some provinces.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Thank you, Mr. Gourde.
We have a couple more minutes on this side.
Mr. Harris, do you have a quick one?
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Yes.
Mr. Vachon, if technology and interest were such that solar energy sources could be made popular, then we would see them all over the country by now, I guess. So obviously there's a void there somewhere. I suggest that maybe research and development and selling the idea are needed to make solar heating and solar energy household names.
You're saying that the government has a responsibility, so let me ask you this. How many years of research, development, marketing, and selling the idea are you talking about? How many government dollars are you suggesting over that period of time to make this become something that we see on every street?
4:25 p.m.
Engineer, Business and Technological Development, Enerconcept Technologies Inc.
To make it something that you see on every street, right now, for research and development, I would say you need zero dollars. That being said, I wouldn't put nothing for new technology development in Canada; I certainly would, but research and development is not where we are at right now, as we were in 1975. There are mature technologies out there, again, markets of billions of dollars in other countries. So for this to happen here, I would suggest, for example, how about putting as much money into solar energy as we put into fossil fuels and nuclear? That would make a very good amount to work with.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Granted, we have some tax payment incentives, the way they structure their payment of taxes. Are you suggesting something like that for those who are manufacturing, developing, and installing solar energy panels as well, or are you suggesting direct dollars into the industry?
What I want to know is, if it's such a good idea and will work so much, why isn't industry just jumping all over it? For the solar industry, with private investment in getting the.... There are tax incentives for research and development, and for marketing and stuff, but it's all based on how much of the product is being sold.
4:25 p.m.
Engineer, Business and Technological Development, Enerconcept Technologies Inc.
Yes, exactly.
Again, you're right, it's how much the product is being sold. But because the consumer needs to outlay the initial money, and because energy prices are not that high in Canada, what you call the payback is long. But the cost of energy production, again, with solar is lower.
So basically we need to remove those initial hurdles, and then we will see that we benefit from technologies that do provide kilowatt hours at a very low price.