Natural Resources Committee on March 4th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Good morning, everyone. We're working on getting the teleconference set up here, but we will start the meeting. There is a point of order by Madame DeBellefeuille, and then Ms. Bell also has something.

Before we get started with the witnesses, Madame DeBellefeuille, I believe you have a point of order.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask my colleagues on the Committee to set aside 15 minutes at the end of this meeting in order to discuss the motion I have tabled. This motion deals with the invitation that was made to the Minister of Natural Resources to appear before the Committee regarding the Supplementary Estimates (B) 2007-2008 and the recent Federal Budget. The timeframe for discussing Supplementary Estimates is very tight.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We can do that. You're certainly entitled to bring up a motion whenever you want. You've given notice of that. Do you want 15 minutes or do you want 10 minutes?

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

I would suggest that we start with 10 minutes, and if that proves insufficient, we could take 15 minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Okay, we will start 10 minutes before the end of the meeting. Thank you very much for your cooperation on that.

We are here today to continue the study--oh, Ms. Bell, sorry, my apologies. Yes, go ahead.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Sorry, Mr. Chair. I just want to clear something up. I saw a news article this week from the Prince George Citizen that said the MP for Cariboo—Prince George and the MP for Tobique—Mactaquac were leading a study on Canada's forest industry and they were appointed by the Minister of Natural Resources.

I just want to be clear that this was the only study on forestry that is happening or to ask whether the minister appointed another group to study forestry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Of course, what individual MPs do or what they do as groups isn't the business of this committee, but we certainly are dealing with the forest industry. We've had great meetings so far. We expect today to be a great meeting, and we will carry on. know we'll have an excellent report at the end of that.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

My question is, has the minister appointed another group to study forestry?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

I have no knowledge of this whatsoever.

Yes, Mr. Boshcoff.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

In terms of the public receiving signals, I've also heard from my forest industry people, asking why there were only two people on this study and why the minister only appointed two Conservatives to do this entire study at the same time as this committee is in an all-party situation doing exactly the same thing.

When I read it I was quite startled. I think the Prince George newspaper has a pretty fair reputation, so they must have uncovered something that no one else has. Certainly I would ask the minister, if he has commissioned a study with only two MPs to do this, that the rest of this committee also be included in it and that the study be referred to this committee or added on. If we need some more weeks, that's fine. But if they're going to go around the country at the behest of the Minister of Natural Resources, it only reinforces the motion here to have the minister appear, if he's doing things in parallel with us.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

I understand your point, Mr. Boshcoff. You've made the point.

Mr. Anderson, and then Mr. St. Amand.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I just make the quick point that the minister is fully capable of multi-tasking. He looks to a variety of sources for his information and for recommendations, and I know he is very proud to work with the members from Prince George and from Tobique--Mactaquac. He relies on them for their expertise in this area. As you can tell from their ability to work at the committee here, they both know a lot about the subject. The minister is very happy to take their advice.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

Mr. St. Amand.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I share Ms. Bell's curiosity about this appointment. Mr. Boshcoff makes the valid point that when he arrives, we'll be able to speak directly to the minister about this.

In the meantime, the two appointees, of course, are in our midst this morning. I feel, frankly, as a member of the Standing Committee on Natural Resources, that our role has been diluted. It has been undermined. The minister has seen fit, in the midst of our all-party committee study on forestry, to appoint two from our group to conduct a parallel or independent study.

I can't quite understand the timing, the purpose. The two appointees are here. I would ask Mr. Harris and Mr. Allen to endeavour to explain how it is they came to be approached. Did they volunteer? Did they suggest that this committee wasn't doing its job and a separate study had to be done? I'm wondering if they would try to enlighten us on those points.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Certainly, if they would like to respond, they could, but I would like to get on with the business of this committee. We have business to do. We have a report to write, and I'm confident that report will be an excellent report.

Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I echo what you said. I'm confident the committee will have a substantive and comprehensive report.

Perhaps this was a misunderstanding. Maybe the newspaper didn't get its information accurately. Maybe there is no study appointed by the minister and maybe there's some misunderstanding. This would then inform us and everybody that, yes, this is the committee that is doing the study and the minister is keenly waiting for its report. If that's the case, I think the people here can clarify that, and I'm hoping we can clarify that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

I can say that as chair I know nothing about this, so I can't answer it.

Again, if the members or the parliamentary secretary would like to discuss this, it's up to them entirely.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Chair, if anybody has been paying attention, it's clear that the two gentlemen have been leading the government side on this committee. They've been leading in this study, and that's obvious to anyone who's been paying attention. I'd actually like to move on, as you would, with the study. They've been appointed by the committee to lead this committee, particularly on the issues that they have familiarity with, so they can do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Certainly any of you are free to deal with the media as you see fit. There's no ability of anyone on the committee to prevent that.

Mr. Boshcoff, and then if we could get to the business of the committee....

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Chair, it has been alluded that these two individuals are leading this. Mr. Anderson has just said that they've been carrying the ball on this. That's a great offence to this committee. We've had some great cooperation between the parties. I think those people who are here representing other parties also feel that they've had a leadership role. If there's another study going on, as Mr. Anderson alluded to, to appoint people by the minister, then it's a duplication. To suggest otherwise....

There's a piece of news out there. The Prince George paper has reported that two individuals have been appointed by the minister to do this. I think Ms. Bell's question is absolutely valid in terms of trying to understand this. If we're going to put a report together and then two other individuals are going to do their own thing and report to the minister, we then have to question why we're putting all this time in.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We have witnesses here.

If I could, I did hear what Mr. Anderson said. He said those two members are leading it for the government side. I can't imagine that anyone would see a problem with that.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

That's not what he said the first time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Ouellet.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I had not noticed that there were two individuals who were working harder than the others. I find that this is truly proof of contempt towards this Committee, that is working so hard. The fact that you, Mr. Chairman, are not aware of this situation is further proof of contempt for the Committee. You should be very offended by the fact that two individuals were appointed by the Minister without your being notified of this, in your role as Chair. Perhaps you were aware of this, but did not want to tell us, or perhaps you were not. I find the situation absolutely unbelievable, no matter what the case is.

I believe that the Minister should come here to provide us with an explanation. The fact that we are doing a study and discover at the outset that it will not be valid because two individuals from the government side are going to carry out a similar study at the same time makes no sense whatsoever. I am very offended.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Ouellet, again, I certainly don't know what you're doing on this issue in your constituency or anywhere else in the country. I don't know what Liberal members or other opposition members are doing anywhere in the country on this as well. It's up to you, just as it's up to them. I think we should get on with the business of the committee.

Mr. St. Amand, and then we'll get to the witnesses.