Evidence of meeting #36 for Natural Resources in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aecl.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Can you explain to this committee what the difference is between a CANDU reactor and a MAPLE reactor?
12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
Well, at the highest level of aggregation, which is where I play in this particular area, essentially the CANDUs that we design are literally 75 to 100 times the power output of the MAPLE reactor; that is, 750 megawatts to more than 1,100 megawatts versus 10 megawatts. The CANDU reactors are the size of Scotiabank Place while a reactor core in the MAPLE is the size of a large oil drum.
The designs are not similar. Equally, the MAPLE reactor was a one-of-a-kind device that was designed with low energy output to produce isotopes, versus a proven design that has been built and installed over 30 times around the world and is reliably producing over 50% of Ontario's electricity every day, which is what CANDU is all about.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Is AECL willing to work with universities or others who have indicated they'd like to explore how they can produce medical isotopes at other existing research reactors in Canada?
12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
I've had direct discussions with one institution and I know there are others that have expressed an interest. We certainly are very receptive to any and all parties interested in undertaking some element of isotope production.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Some have suggested that the unresolved technical problems with the MAPLE projects should be a concern for a province considering purchasing CANDU power reactors. Could you comment on AECL's ability to deliver the advanced CANDU power reactor?
12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
We have in our recent history—in the last 12 years—delivered CANDU 6 reactors successfully in several foreign jurisdictions, notably Korea, China, Romania, and, prior to that, Argentina, and in all cases have delivered those reactors on time and on budget to the customer.
One of the reasons we're able to do that is that the fundamental design of the CANDU allows us to have a diverse supply chain and to have the redundancy of supply that can sometimes cause difficulties for other designs. We are very confident in the ability of our design to be constructed. We have a modularity built into the way we design our reactors that optimizes our ability to design, build, and deliver them on time, and we have demonstrated that conclusively in several markets.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Ms. Gallant. Your time is up.
We go to the second round. We'll go to four minutes for each party because of time restrictions.
We'll start with Mr. Boshcoff, who may split his time with Mr. Alghabra.
Go ahead, please.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Boshcoff Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Thank you very much.
Highly skilled nuclear researchers confirm I think what you just said, Mr. MacDiarmid, that the size of the facility for producing isotopes doesn't necessarily have to be as gargantuan as previously. I'm wondering whether within the realm of physics it is possible now for locations that have the concrete and the protection, such as cancer research centres or biomedical research facilities, to produce isotopes for the market safely. And do they have to be licensed by AECL? Do you have the monopoly on the franchise, or is there room for commercial competition in this?
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
June 5th, 2008 / 12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
Certainly we at AECL are contractually bound to produce isotopes for our business partner, MDS Nordion, so we have a business relationship in place. In terms of other producers who have a nuclear reactor and can do that, there is no intellectual property control that we exercise over that at all.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Boshcoff Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Do they have to be licensed from you to get a nuclear reactor producing this, even if it's the size of an oil drum or smaller?
12:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
No.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. MacDiarmid, thank you very much for appearing before us on short notice. I appreciate it.
AECL signed a 40-year supply agreement with MDS Nordion in February of 2006 for the supply of isotopes. Everybody who has been following the MAPLE development, especially over the last while, could sense that its future is in jeopardy. We were talking with the minister about when the decision was really made, but I think the fact remains that it's been contemplated for a while.
Can you tell me why AECL did not engage MDS Nordion, given the 40-year supply contract and legal and financial obligations at the time, in trying to work out an agreement before the announcement was made?
12:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
First of all, there is some dispute between our view and the MDS Nordion view of that 40-year agreement. I don't want to get too far down a path of discussing our legal situation, but I need to say that you made the statement on the presumption that we have a 40-year supply agreement. Our view is that the agreement was conditional upon the completion of the MAPLE reactor on time, and that did not occur, so we have to resolve an issue surrounding the interpretation of the agreement.
I think it's very important to say that we believe we're acting within the terms of our agreement.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Are you saying that from your perspective, AECL doesn't have a 40-year obligation to MDS Nordion any more?
12:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
We do not have, in our opinion, a 40-year supply obligation as per the contract.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Does AECL intend on getting out of the isotope supply business?
12:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
We intend to continue supplying isotopes from the NRU through to 2011, and we intend to pursue the relicensing of the NRU to extend it beyond that time and to continue to produce isotopes.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
In your estimate, how long will the NRU be able to produce isotopes?
12:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
I can't give you an answer to that. It would be fair to say that a typical licence extension would be for a five-year period, so we would expect that would be the minimum we would plan to apply for in relicensing the reactor.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Do you agree with me that there's a sense of discomfort among many Canadians after the shortage that happened late last year and earlier this year and the appearance that there's no plan B for MAPLE reactors, as well as the realization, following the cancellation, that there's no second proposal, except for maintaining the NRU? Do you agree that there's a sense of discomfort, and that perhaps AECL can shed some light on reassuring people who expect the isotopes to continue to be produced?
12:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
What I can say is that we certainly understand the concerns that anybody in this supply chain or in the medical or health care community might have and their desire to have the highest level of certainty they can. We can only control what we can control, which in this particular case is operating the NRU reliably, delivering on our supply commitments, going ahead in good faith and applying to relicense the NRU, and moving forward with doing that and continuing that supply.