Evidence of meeting #14 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was efficiency.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
How widespread is the use of methane capture from landfills in Europe and the United States?
Associate Director, Energy Efficiency Center at University of California, Davis, and Senior Scientist, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, As an Individual
I can't answer that, because I don't know.
Executive Director, Blue Green Alliance
Likewise; I am uncertain about the extent of methane capture.
I certainly have heard the District Energy St. Paul experts talk about methane as something that Europeans are much more interested in than I've heard developed here in the United States. But again, I have no specific knowledge about that.
Conservative
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Boy, I don't really have much time for this.
I understand that the U.S., in its stimulus package, announced that it plans to spend $76 billion on renewable energy and energy efficiency technology. This is about six times per capita more than the government here plans to spend in this area. It's also clear that the government here intends to put most of its efforts in the area of carbon capture and sequestration.
Are we going down the wrong road? Are we missing out on the opportunity to invest in and create thousands of green energy jobs? What are your thoughts on this?
I guess I'll start with Dr. Meier.
Associate Director, Energy Efficiency Center at University of California, Davis, and Senior Scientist, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, As an Individual
You know what? I'll be frank. I think carbon capture and sequestration is a tailpipe solution that ignores.... Basically, it tries to avoid doing anything serious to the rest of the economy. It's also very expensive and doesn't create many jobs.
I'll leave the rest of the time to David Foster.
Executive Director, Blue Green Alliance
I think the world needs to know about whether or not carbon capture sequestration works or doesn't work. For the global economy that question is especially important, given that China, for the last number of years, has been building and commissioning a coal-fired power plant every single week of every year. Consequently, knowing if there's a role to play in stopping global warming with CCS, even if it were for an interim period of time, is important.
In terms of the fundamental transformation of our economy to a clean energy economy that's taking place, it seems to me there's no question that the existing technologies in wind, solar, geothermal, and biomass are the four big pillars that we ought to be heavily investing in, and that the countries that got the jump on us in North America with those technologies in Europe and Japan are enjoying some of the economic benefits of that today.
I think the faster we get on board with bringing to scale those kinds of technologies, the sooner we will be able to appreciate the economic benefits in revitalizing our own economies. I think it was an important step that last year the U.S. did two things. Number one, we brought more wind electricity online than any other country in the world. We also brought more wind electricity online than any other form of power in the U.S. So there was more wind-generated electricity built, installed, and commissioned than there was natural gas for 2008. We really are starting to see those direct economic benefits. Those are the concentration areas, along with the efficiency that Dr. Meier talked about so much today already. That's where the big investments need to be made. That's where the job creation lies.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Foster. Thank you, Mr. Regan.
Mr. Anderson, if you would take about two minutes, then I'll go to Mr. Cullen for about two minutes. We need a little bit of time at the end of the meeting to discuss what we're going to do with the meetings for next Tuesday and Thursday, and actually Thursday morning's meeting as well, to some extent.
Mr. Anderson, go ahead for about two minutes.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
It's my privilege, Mr. Chair, to share my time with Mr. Cullen.
I had a question on one of the last comments you made, Mr. Foster. Did the wind expansion take place last year prior to this administration coming in? You were talking about the huge wind expansion that took place last year.
Executive Director, Blue Green Alliance
Yes, it did, and it was largely driven by the fact that over the last half dozen years or so, 28 individual states in the U.S. passed their own renewable electricity standards. That's roughly the equivalent of passing a federal 12% standard, I think it is. As a result of that, a growing set of markets was created at the state level that brought in a lot of investment in wind-generated electricity, and that was reflected in a big rise in employment in the industry, the opening up of at least a dozen new factories last year producing parts or assemblage of wind turbines here in the U.S. It really created the basis--
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
I need to cut you off there, because I have only two minutes and I have one other question that's important to me, because I come from a province where we have a monopoly utility provider.
You mentioned California and Minnesota. What are the electrical rates that people are getting paid in order to return energy to the grid? What rates do they need compared to the energy cost that they're being charged? Is there a formula that they need in order to return a certain percentage back to the grid?
I guess I'm not being clear on this. If I sell to my energy provider, what rate do I need in order to make my business viable, compared to the cost that the utility is charging me?
Executive Director, Blue Green Alliance
For the CBED program that I mentioned in Minnesota, I couldn't give you the exact rate on that, but I believe it's the sale price that the utility provides plus some incentive payment. We can get you that information. I think that's something that I can find readily available and send to your committee staff.
Associate Director, Energy Efficiency Center at University of California, Davis, and Senior Scientist, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, As an Individual
In the California case, they literally reversed the meter. They have the meter going backwards, so what you get paid is what you pay the utility for the electricity. Does that make sense?
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
One of you is getting 100%, basically, and it sounds like the other state is actually giving some sort of premium for that energy. Is that correct, as far as you know?
If we can get the information, that would be great.
Associate Director, Energy Efficiency Center at University of California, Davis, and Senior Scientist, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, As an Individual
I think so.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
If you could get that, it would be very helpful.
Thank you very much, gentlemen.
Mr. Cullen, for just a very short question.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Chair, and thank you to Mr. Anderson.
I have a question to Mr. Meier about the recent Supreme Court decisions and the EPA coming down on the side to allow the EPA to regulate carbon emissions, in particular, and the effect that will have on Canada-U.S. relations with the Obama administration, driven by your state contemplating the weighting of fuels by their carbon intensity. Should there be a preoccupation, on this side of the border, of Washington being serious about weighting fossil fuels differently, based on the amount of carbon contained in their production?
Associate Director, Energy Efficiency Center at University of California, Davis, and Senior Scientist, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, As an Individual
I'm afraid to answer that question, because I just don't know enough; I don't want to mislead you.
Executive Director, Blue Green Alliance
Yes. The one point I would make is that the Environmental Protection Agency announced yesterday, in response to the U.S. Supreme Court ruling of some years ago, that they were fully prepared to regulate greenhouse gases, including tailpipe emissions as one of those.
Conservative
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Mr. Foster, I wonder what Canada's participation has been in the discussion around Washington on these low carbon standards that are being proposed in the Waxman climate change bill. Does Canada have a presence or is it an observer? Is it part of the discussion, from your perspective?
Executive Director, Blue Green Alliance
I'm simply not in a position to be able to answer that. I don't know.