Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 24th, 2009

Evidence of meeting #4 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was public.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Examination of the Activities of Atomic Energy of Canada Limited (AECL) at Chalk River

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michael Binder President, Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission

Patsy Thompson Director General, Directorate of Environmental and Radiation Protection and Assessment, Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission

Murray Elston President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Nuclear Association

Hugh MacDiarmid President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Bill Pilkington Senior Vice-President and Chief Nuclear Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Michael Ingram Senior Vice-President, Operations, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

I have to say that being involved in that process at the time, when we looked at the materiality and said one one-thousandth of the allowable release limit, we said, “Does this pass the test? Does it merit this kind of treatment?” The choice we made at the time...we can always look back and wish we had done it differently, and clearly--

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Just on that, do you wish you had done it differently?

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

The degree of attention that has been paid to this in the past two months would suggest we have been wise in our statement to commit to a lower level of disclosure, a lower threshold for disclosure.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Which is what happened this weekend. There was another leak. You folks chose to declare, to say this has happened.

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

We voluntarily disclosed the information, yes.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

I'm new to this issue and I'm just trying to get more clarity. The MAPLE reactors were in a sense meant to provide up to 100% of the world's need of isotopes. Is that correct?

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

One of the project goals of the dedicated isotope facilities was indeed that it would replace the NRU and become the prime supplier of isotopes.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

It was thought of in the 1980s, it began in 1996, was finished in 2000-01, it stumbled along, and then eventually it stopped in 2008. Is that right?

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

I won't agree with the “stumbled along”, but nonetheless it was before my time.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

But it's no longer.

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

It is no longer.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

How much did that cost?

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

The total cost to Canadian taxpayers? I believe we took a provision for roughly $250 million in our financial statements last year when we wrote off our investment in that project.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Over the total life of the project, $250 million is what we sunk into it.

5:10 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

I'm going from memory, but I believe that's the order of magnitude.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

How much did AECL put in?

5:10 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

That was our writedown.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

That was all of it?

5:10 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

That was ours. This was a project that was funded under a joint agreement with ourselves and MDS Nordion, which of course is the subject of some dispute.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

That's in the courts.

5:10 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

That is correct.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

This year's budget of $351 million is public money going to AECL. Over the 50-year history of AECL, do we have any sense of how much money has flowed from the public?

5:10 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

I couldn't give you a precise answer to that, but it's certainly more than $1 billion.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

With $350 million in one year, one would imagine over 50.... It hasn't been $350 million every year, but it's been significant.

5:10 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

Certainly not. The last two years have been very significantly higher than in the previous decade.