Evidence of meeting #41 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was operator.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Brenda MacKenzie  Senior Legislative Counsel, Advisory and Development Services Section, Department of Justice
Dave McCauley  Director, Uranium and Radioactive Waste Division, Electricity Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources
Jacques Hénault  Analyst, Nuclear Liability and Emergency Preparedness, Department of Natural Resources

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Maybe Mr. Regan has hit my point here. There's nothing in the bill that talks about exclusivity for the operator; it says that it's seeking to make operators liable in the event of a nuclear accident. That is the intent of the bill.

There was never any notion in the preamble--and we were trying to be careful in reading through this--that said “exclusively they are liable”, because if that were in fact the intent of the bill, then the Canadian government would also be excluded from that liability chain, which is not the intent. In the bill that we've read and in all of our testimony so far, there are only two that are being talked about. It was to make the operators liable, but never liable exclusively. That, we don't understand, because we have not done it in any other industry or in any other form of law.

I'm not a lawyer, so I understand that I'm on thin ice in terms of the legal precedent, but I just don't understand its incongruity. I don't see that exclusivity part as the intent of the bill. I guess that's what I'm asking about.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

That's your interpretation of this.

Mr. Anderson, did you want to comment on this?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Obviously, the point of the bill is that, between the industry and those concerned with the industry and with the liability issues, they wanted to have this focused on one thing, which is the operators.

The operators are responsible for the construction and the suppliers. They've been willing to take on that responsibility. That is the point of the bill. That's why the bill has been put forward. This has been deemed to be an important aspect of it. I think it brings us in line with international conventions as well.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

I've probably allowed this discussion to take place when I shouldn't have. I made a ruling on the amendment that it isn't in order. I want to allow the committee to work, but if every time I make a ruling we have a debate on it, then it'll cause some problems.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

I respectfully seek to challenge the ruling, then, Chair.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Mr. Cullen has challenged the ruling of the chair.

The question to the committee is, then, shall the ruling of the chair be sustained?

(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 9; nays 1)

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

The chair's ruling is sustained. We will carry on and I will ignore a few of the comments that are going on here.

We're back to clause 8. Is there anything further on clause 8?

Clause 8 is carried.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, you said “carried”, but I want to make sure on this. I voted against.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Sorry. Are you voting against clause 8?

Do you want it on division?

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

I'd like this recorded.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Okay. We will go to a recorded division on clause 8.

(Clause 8 agreed to: yeas 9; nays 1)

(Clauses 9 and 10 agreed to)

(On clause 11--Individual responsible for nuclear incident)

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Mr. Cullen, is there something on clause 11?

4 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Could I just have time some time?

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Yes.

4 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Could I have the department give an explanation on this clause, please?

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Sure.

Go ahead, Mr. McCauley.

4 p.m.

Director, Uranium and Radioactive Waste Division, Electricity Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources

Dave McCauley

Thank you.

The explanation here is that the operator is not liable for the damages sustained by the individual who may have caused an incident intentionally. However, the operator would continue to be absolutely liable for any third party damages. But the individual who actually caused the damage would not be compensated by the operator.

4 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

May I, Chair...?

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Go ahead, Mr. Cullen.

4 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Just to be more explicit, is this one of those clauses attempting to catch acts of terrorism or acts of...? Is that what we're speaking about here?

4 p.m.

Director, Uranium and Radioactive Waste Division, Electricity Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources

Dave McCauley

That's correct. Excuse me, it's not necessarily terrorism, but any kind of--

4 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Sabotage?

4 p.m.

Director, Uranium and Radioactive Waste Division, Electricity Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources

Dave McCauley

--sabotage, etc. That's right.

4 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Where exactly is that proven or not proven? Is it in a court of law? Where is it decided that this person intentionally went about causing an accident to take place?

4 p.m.

A voice

In a court of a law.