Natural Resources Committee on March 10th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Boughen, you have about two and a half minutes.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm looking at the implementation of the integrated energy system. How do you see it affecting municipalities in the area of economics? You mentioned it just briefly. What do you see as inhibitors or avenues for success around the whole economic question?

[Andrew Cowan]

I'll try to answer that. Is that within the economic question of economic development or the financial situation of a municipality?

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Actually, it's development and then having the project run forward. Once it's developed, it's okay and it's operational. What do you see in terms of aid or problems for municipalities as they move into that integrated system?

[Andrew Cowan]

Again, first and foremost, I think it's probably getting the resources to fund that type of system. I don't see any problems once it's up and running. You'll need to maintain that system.

It's one of those things you hear about in terms of win-win-win, because once you have.... If we're talking about a district system in a small community, you're saving taxpayers money over the long term in terms of the operating and maintenance costs going down. You're also likely, as we've talked about briefly here, either transferring jobs or creating new jobs to maintain that system. The economic aspects and the financial aspects of the community are positive in most cases, so long as you can see why you need to invest in them.

I used to work for a city. One of the challenges we always had was, “We should maybe do some energy efficiency”, and it was, “Well, how much is that going to cost us?” Well, it's not about a cost; it's about an investment. It's not about the next four years; it's about the long term. If we can plan and then implement in that fashion, the benefits are substantial from an economic, a social, and a financial standpoint.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Boughen, for your question.

We'll go now to Mr. Hyer for about two and a half minutes, and then finally to Mr. Tonks for about two and a half minutes.

[Bruce Hyer, NDP, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

I'm going to ask a very broad question. I'm hoping for very snappy, short, sound-bite answers. Pretend you're politicians in front of the mike.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

So about half-hour answers, then, gentlemen? We're out of time. I'm sorry.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Bruce Hyer, NDP, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Yes, in front of a media mike.

If we assume that 1990 is the base year and that we need to reduce our greenhouse gases by 25% by 2020 and 80% by 2080, with about one-third of our energy needs coming from buildings, one-third from transport, and one-third from industry, 99% of the scientists, 80% of the public, 62% of the politicians, and four-fifths of the federal parties seem to believe that we could and should do that.

If we made you energy czars--and you've thought about this a lot--could each of you give me one best bet from your point of view, relating to what you do, and one obstacle, if you want to add that, in about 30 seconds per answer for a total under his time limit?

[Thomas Mueller]

Do I have to go first?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Mueller.

[Thomas Mueller]

In 30 seconds?

I think the biggest opportunity is to cut energy use in buildings in half, by 50%. The technology exists, the know-how exists, and we have a tremendous green building cluster, I should say, in Canada. We're renowned worldwide for that.

One of the biggest challenges, I think, is leadership. We see some leadership now, both from the industry and from government, but we need more leadership to make it happen. It's not in the technology, it's not in the know-how; it's actually us as Canadians making a commitment to moving forward and making real change on the ground.

[Bruce Hyer, NDP, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you.

[Andrew Cowan]

Since Thomas has covered buildings, I'll go with transportation as a big bet.

One of the biggest barriers is coordination and partnerships and the will to move forward. We haven't talked much about transportation and energy today, but that is a huge component of community energy planning that needs to be addressed. It's a third of communities.

[Bruce Hyer, NDP, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

A little bit of specificity, quickly, please. Could you be a little specific?

[Andrew Cowan]

Well, in communities, the transportation sector represents about a third of all energy and GHG emissions from it. So supporting public transit is a winner in all aspects, if you go through the sustainability principles of financial, economic, and social. That would be a prime focus.

Talking about how to plan cities better to accommodate transit and transit infrastructure is another area. And then the whole idea of vehicles—single-occupancy vehicles—is something that needs to be addressed. Part of the challenge there is measuring it, measuring change from one mode to another.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Hyer.

We go now finally to Mr. Tonks, just before the bells.

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I'm sure the committee would be interested to know that the highly successful deep water heating and cooling corporation that was created in the city of Toronto, which presently is overwhelmed with people who want to be part of it, was under my administration in Toronto. But that's not what I wanted to say.

On the heels of that last question—and Mr. Allen was trying to get a sense of the scope and how a municipality would approach a redevelopment—let's use a hypothetical one. This would be a large redevelopment in an urban context, where there are many interests. There are social housing interests; there are transportation and transit interests; there are arenas in an area around probably a 100-acre redevelopment site. In order for it to be phased, many of these opportunities for an integrated energy approach are there. They're not all going to be achieved at once; they're not going to be achieved by one program.

Is Dockside Green the best example you have of that scale of development with those kinds of opportunities, or are there other developments in the national experience that exist out there?

[Thomas Mueller]

Dockside is the one that's the most advanced, because it's been completed, occupied, and sold, but there are many others. I'd be glad to provide you a list of the projects we are familiar with, in making that happen.

I think in any community development or redevelopment, if I were a municipality, I would set the goals, and I would let the creativity of the market, the creativity of the developer and the designers, find the solutions. So set the targets: this project cannot use more than half the water of a commercial project, or it has to reduce carbon by 60%, or whatever it may be. Then let the designers and the developers come up with the solution.

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Perhaps the committee could have that information. If you could forward that, it would be very helpful.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

So noted.

Mr. Cowan, do you want to give a short response?

[Andrew Cowan]

We have examples as well that we can provide. I think Regent Park is a good example, where they're looking at energy within the redevelopment of Regent Park. Strathcona County is a smaller community with an urban centre that's looking at an integrated approach. It isn't just the large urban centres we have to emphasize. We can provide some smaller remote community examples as well.

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

It would be very helpful.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.