Evidence of meeting #16 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was neb.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Gaétan Caron  Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
Bharat Dixit  Team Leader, Conservation of Resources, National Energy Board
Anne Drinkwater  President, BP Canada Inc.
David Pryce  Vice-President, Operations, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
Lawrence Amos  Treasurer, Inuvialuit Game Council
Raymond Ningeocheak  Vice-President, Finance, Nunavut Tunngavik Inc.
Norman Snow  Executive Director, Inuvialuit Game Council

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Good morning, everyone. We are here today, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), to start a study on the status of the emergency response to offshore oil and gas drilling and the adequacy of the current regulatory regime.

We have two panels today. The first panel is scheduled for about 45 minutes. Then we have a larger panel for the last hour and a quarter. We'll start right away so that we give the maximum amount of time to the members for questions and answers.

From the National Energy Board we have Gaétan Caron, chair and chief executive officer, and Bharat Dixit, team leader, conservation of resources.

Welcome, gentlemen. Go ahead with your presentations, which will be somewhere around eight minutes, I hope. Then we'll get directly to the questions and comments.

Go ahead, please.

9:05 a.m.

Gaétan Caron Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The National Energy Board is the federal regulator for offshore oil and gas drilling and production in Canada. At the same time, the areas off the shores of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador are administered by joint federal-provincial offshore petroleum boards. The NEB has a close working relationship with these offshore boards and with other regulators in Canada and around the world. When an accident happens anywhere, we learn from each other. This is considered standard operating procedure for all safety regulators.

We have also been working with land claims agencies, such as the Inuvialuit Game Council, and for the past 20 years with communities that could potentially be affected by Mackenzie Delta and Beaufort Sea drilling.

The most recent authorization for offshore drilling issued by the board was for Devon Paktoa C-60. This exploratory oil well was drilled in about 11 metres of water, between December 2005 and March 2006. The previous offshore well drilled in this area was the Imperial Isserk I-15 well, which was drilled in 1989. This was also a shallow oil well. It was drilled in just 10 metres of water.

The earliest possible date on which future drilling may occur in the Beaufort Sea, if the NEB approves it, will be 2014. It will be at a depth of 700 metres. This contrasts with the BP Macondo MC252, in the Gulf of Mexico, in 1,500 metres of water, which is the subject of the current emergency response.

There are currently no active authorizations or approvals for offshore exploration or production activities under the board's jurisdiction.

What brings us here today is an accident of major proportion in the Gulf of Mexico. The NEB is actively monitoring this situation. The focus now is to stop the leak and protect the environment. Once this is done, people will be able to focus on explaining what happened, why, and what has been learned. On Tuesday, May 11, the NEB announced that it is starting a review of Arctic safety and environmental offshore drilling requirements in light of the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. Full details of this review will be announced and this process will be public and consultative.

The NEB administers the current Canada Oil and Gas Operations Act, known as COGOA; parts of the Canada Petroleum Resources Act, known as CPRA; and the Canada Oil and Gas Drilling and Production Regulations. These have very strong wording. These acts call on the NEB, when it considers whether to grant an authorization, to ensure that oil and gas activities are safe, that they protect the environment, and that they conserve oil and gas resources. Before any project is approved, the NEB must satisfy itself that the operator's drilling plans include robust safety, emergency response, and environmental protection plans that meet the board's high standards.

To make sure that we meet the strict requirements of the acts, the NEB relies on a team of skilled and experienced experts. The NEB has 85 people who focus entirely on safety, engineering, the environment, geoscience, socio-economic issues, and lands. NEB staff review every single application to make sure that workers and the public will be safe and that the environment will be protected.

In addition to making sure that applications meet the requirements of COGOA and its regulations, NEB staff conduct stringent environmental assessments to make sure that projects under our jurisdiction comply with the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. An authorization for drilling and production activities will not be granted unless a comprehensive environmental assessment has been completed. Any project that is approved by the NEB is subjected to a number of conditions in areas such as safety, the environment and emergency response. To make sure operators comply with these conditions, NEB staff are out in the field conducting inspections and auditing the company's management plans.

For offshore projects, the operator also needs to obtain a certificate of fitness from an independent certifying authority to ensure that the vessel and drilling equipment are appropriate, are in good condition, and are capable of undertaking the proposed activity.

After drilling has been approved, the acts administered by the NEB board allow it to take over the management and control of any work or activity if the board is not satisfied that an operator is living up to its commitments. The acts provide for a fine of up to one million dollars, imprisonment for up to five years, or both. The board can also suspend or revoke authorization for failure to comply with the provisions of the acts, the regulations, or the authorization.

In the case of spills or incidents under the board's jurisdiction, the NEB is the lead federal agency. The operator is fully accountable and responsible for spills and damage. A critical requirement under the board's legislation is the need for companies to provide proposed emergency response and contingency plans. The board assesses these plans before any authorization to drill can be issued.

The board also has emergency response management programs. Our staff has participated in 22 spill-response exercises over the past five years. I have a number of examples in my speaking notes, and I'll just refer to them here. I'll just outline the first one, which is actually happening today in Inuvik. It is an orientation and communication exercise for a Beaufort Sea oil spill. That is just one of the examples of the many things that must happen as we move towards the possibility of offshore drilling in the Beaufort Sea.

With respect to liability, NEB-regulated companies are fully responsible for anticipating, preventing, mitigating, and managing incidents and oil spills of any size or duration. If there is a hydrocarbon spill and the operators are at fault, they are 100% responsible for paying all costs and damages. There is no limit to how much they would have to pay. If there is a hydrocarbon spill and the operators are not at fault, they are still responsible for paying costs and damages, up to a limit of $40 million.

Before drilling, the operator must provide the NEB with a financial security, which is available to the NEB to cover the cost of a potential cleanup. The National Energy Board determines the amount of the security deposit. There is no set maximum amount.

In addition, under the terms of the Inuvialuit Final Agreement, an operator is responsible for restoring damaged wildlife and for compensating Inuvialuit hunters, trappers, and fishers for their loss of subsistence or commercial harvesting opportunities. The NEB may require the operator to provide financial security for this amount up front.

In conclusion, the purpose of my testimony here today is to tell you why we at the National Energy Board believe we have in place both an adequate regulatory framework and the necessary emergency response assets. At the same time, we have a fundamental responsibility to review the lessons learned from the Deepwater Horizon accident in the Gulf of Mexico.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you very much, Mr. Caron, for what is a very helpful start to our study. This is an issue that is obviously important not only to those here but to all Canadians. And the importance of the regulator in that process I don't think can be overstated. So thank you very much.

We'll go directly now to questions, starting with Mr. Regan.

You have up to seven minutes. Go ahead, please.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Mr. Chairman, I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Bagnell.

First of all, thank you very much.

Thank you very much for coming to meet with us today. We appreciate it very much.

You talked about the operator being fully accountable and responsible for spills and damage. That's an important principle. Of course, in the case of the Gulf of Mexico and what's happening there, I'm sure that's not much comfort to people who are worried about what's happening in the marshlands and wetlands and in the vast area affected by this, whether it's the shrimp boat captains--kind of a Forrest Gump thing--or whoever it may be. People are being affected by this. Wildlife is being affected. The long-term impact is enormous.

We have a situation in which BP apparently had blowout preventers that obviously didn't work. So why should we feel any more comfort in our case than they did? The fact that they're accountable and responsible for paying for it is good, but I think Canadians want to see that this kind of thing is prevented, not cleaned up over years afterwards.

9:10 a.m.

Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board

Gaétan Caron

Mr. Chair, I certainly agree with the premise that the main focus of the regulation of offshore drilling is prevention. Blowout preventers are supposed to work. In one case--that we observe every morning now--we can see that a blowout preventer did not work.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

The concern, of course, is that in the U.S. it seems like the regulator kind of relied upon...and in fact the vice-president of BP America has apparently said that they assumed the preventers would work, that BP assumed the blowout preventers would work. It doesn't give me a heck of a lot of comfort when I hear that kind of comment.

I want to know that you as the regulator are not just assuming that these kinds of measures are going to work.

9:10 a.m.

Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board

Gaétan Caron

Absolutely not, sir. I can say with a great deal of confidence that the legislation that we administer initially puts the onus on an operator to propose to the National Energy Board why they believe their program is safe, why they believe the public will be protected, why the workers will be protected, and why the environment will be protected. It is up to us then, once this initial accountability has been discharged, to evaluate in detail the very programs, the very design, the very operating procedures, the very training programs that they propose for that.

If and when we decide that this is in the public interest to authorize drilling of a well offshore, it is then our continuing responsibility to inspect the activities of the company, audit their management systems, and be satisfied that the commitments made at the time of application are met throughout the project.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

I know that Mr. Bagnell is anxious to ask some questions, but I just want to ask you, if the situation is okay now, then why are you doing a review of your process? If we have the best regulations supposedly in the world already, why are you reviewing your process, and what do you hope to learn?

9:10 a.m.

Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board

Gaétan Caron

As I said, the basic attitude of a safety regulator is that you always want to learn from accidents anywhere in the world. Two weeks ago, we did not know what an incident of this kind looked like in the Gulf of Mexico. Today we know. We know how grave it has become.

What we don't know is what went wrong. Is it the blowout preventer? If so, was it a design flaw? Was it the metallurgy of the metals used in preparing the device? Is it about its operation? Is it about operator's error? We do not know. And we owe it to Canadian citizens to make every effort to learn from what will happen in weeks and months to come. People will reconstruct the scene. They will analyze the smallest amount of metal they can find in the sea bottom. They'll try to explain why it happened, and as a regulator, my commitment to the citizens of this country is to make sure that these learnings are incorporated into our actual specific regulatory actions on a day-to-day basis.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you, Mr. Regan.

We go now to Mr. Bagnell for about three minutes.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Thanks. I'll try to ask quick questions and get quick answers.

The clear and present danger to Canada is actually right now Greenland and the U.S.A., before Canadian drilling. My understanding is the coast guard, not NEB, is responsible for that, if there's a spill coming in Canadian waters.

9:15 a.m.

Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board

Gaétan Caron

This is correct, for a spill that occurs outside Canada. Once a spill arrives in Canada, the coast guard and other departments would be the lead.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Thank you. So they would actually be our most important witness in these hearings.

In the Devon Paktoa C-60, the last Beaufort well, what did they have that was more safe than the Gulf of Mexico? First of all, did they have a relief well? Second, did they have the house-sized cut-off blowout machine that Macondo in the Gulf of Mexico has? What did they have, and what did they have that was better than the Gulf of Mexico well?

9:15 a.m.

Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board

Gaétan Caron

What they had better than the current situation was that they were on standby, ready to drill a relief well if necessary.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Which would take how long?

9:15 a.m.

Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board

Gaétan Caron

They didn't have to drill one.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

But if they did, how long, roughly, would it take?

9:15 a.m.

Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board

Gaétan Caron

I think Dr. Dixit might have an answer to that technical aspect.

9:15 a.m.

Dr. Bharat Dixit Team Leader, Conservation of Resources, National Energy Board

The mobilization of the equipment could have begun immediately, and the well would take approximately 30 to 60 days to reach.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

And did they have a blowout, big cut-off machine that the one in the Gulf of Mexico has?

9:15 a.m.

Team Leader, Conservation of Resources, National Energy Board

Dr. Bharat Dixit

The Paktoa well was from a surface-based rig, and so they had physical access to the blowout preventers, yes.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

If an operator does not have the equipment and say we've got a spill in the Arctic--and I know the company is supposed to do it, but if they don't have the equipment--and we've got to get there within hours, if not days, which federal agency or department would have that equipment? I know NEB is responsible. Would you have it or would it be another federal department?

9:15 a.m.

Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board

Gaétan Caron

We would not authorize a well if the company could not demonstrate to us that equipment on the part of the company will be there to action the response. The NEB doesn't have airplanes, and tractors, and equipment and boats, to go there, but we work in partnership with others.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

I've got one last question. Sorry to rush you.

The scientists say there's no way at the moment to clean up an oil spill after ice has been there any time. What would we do if there was an oil spill under the ice, then, in our Arctic?

9:15 a.m.

Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board

Gaétan Caron

This is precisely the question that our act and our regulations require the operator to propose to us, and it is our job to assess whether this would be adequate and satisfactory. I cannot answer the question right now because we haven't had--