Evidence of meeting #16 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was neb.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:30 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Sir, let's be clear here: a relief well is not a cost incurred in cleanup. A relief well—
9:30 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
Oh, I misunderstood you; I apologize—
9:30 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I want to get to this notion of the same season. You folks had all of the oil companies in front of you saying that they wanted to lift the regulation that said they must be able to drill a same-season relief well. So if there's a blowout, they have to prove to you—and they still do today, because the rule hasn't changed—that they can come in and drill another well. That looks like what they're now going to have to do in the gulf. There are all of these hare-brained schemes for trying to stop a blowout at 1,500 metres of water. They are not working. A relief well is one of the most secure ways; you agree with this.
Is it possible to have an oil operation in the Arctic in a predominantly ice-filled environment and have same-season relief wells also available to a company?
9:30 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
That is precisely the question we were asking ourselves in response to a company wanting us to replace this methodology with something else. With the events in the Gulf of Mexico, we decided to cancel that hearing and to take a broader perspective, not only on that device but also everything else that makes the outcome of safety--
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Mr. Cullen, your time is up.
Can you give just a quick answer to that?
9:30 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
I missed the last question.
9:30 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I asked, do we know whether you can this or not? Can you do a same-season relief well in an Arctic environment?
9:30 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
No. We have to examine that in detail, with a technical focus based on evidence, based on the best technical expertise around the world, and we'll apply that to Canada when we find it. We do not have that today, sir.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Cullen.
Now to the government side, to Mr. Allen, and if there's time left, to Ms. Gallant, I think.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses for being here.
I just want to pick up on what Mr. Bagnell was talking about in terms of the deep wells. I just want to make sure that it's clear to me, because from what I understood from your two bullet points, the two wells that have been approved to this point in time are in 11 and 10 metres of water, respectively. So they're not deep wells to this point in time.
In terms of those, what safety plans and safeguards were in place when those shallow wells were approved?
9:30 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
We had plans in place that were reflective of the simpler environment in which the drill was being made. The structure that was drilling the well was firm on ice and the bottom of the ocean.
As to the details of these plans, not in great detail but the key elements, if you'll allow me, Mr. Chair, I'll ask Dr. Dixit to outline a bit the safety and emergency response provisions of these plans.
9:30 a.m.
Team Leader, Conservation of Resources, National Energy Board
Devon's plans to us were that they were monitoring the progress of the well and that they had equipment that was ready to be deployed, as I had answered earlier, available at very short notice--hours, as opposed to days or weeks--should indications suggest that the well was going out of control. So that was the primary one.
The second thing in terms of response—should that not be successful—is around the containment and cleanup. Because the ice was landfast, not moving, there was a much easier mechanism for us to capture and clean the ice than there would be, for instance, where we have an open pack condition.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Okay.
That's good, because you take me to my next question. One of the comments you made is that when drilling has been approved, if the board is not satisfied that an operator is living up to its commitments, the board can sort of take over. You went through a bunch of these, but you said “tabletop” exercises, which is a little different from actual.
Have you actually had to do that—get involved and take over management control—and if you did, how would you do that?
9:35 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
We haven't had a full-scale exercise where we simulated the NEB taking over an activity. As the time approaches for the potential for an application to be filed with us to possibly approve, with conditions, such an activity, the board would be ramping up its efforts, both in terms of desktop exercise and in-the-field exercise, to be ready. It's not only us; there's a lot of interdependency with the coast guard, with the Inuvialuit people, and with the other governments involved. At that time, we will ramp up the specifics of getting practice in emergency response, including taking over if necessary.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
If I understand correctly, you have 22 people working on this type of thing all the time. Is that true? Did I see that?
9:35 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
We have about 400 people working at the board. We have about 85 people whose career is directed towards safety, protection of the environment, and geophysics in the physical sites. In all cases their unique focus is to protect the public interest.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
You talked in here about “robust” plans. Can you explain some of those? Given what's happened in the gulf, can you explain some of the fail-safe technologies that are used, and how you define “robust”?
9:35 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
Well, “robust” is defined by professional judgment and experience. Two weeks ago, I would have given you a different answer from what I'm giving you today. Today I would say I'm not so sure that blowout preventers can be relied upon the way they've been designed to date.
That's why a goal-oriented regulation is far superior to a prescriptive one, because a prescriptive regulation would have said a blowout preventer should look like this. It should have the following features. It should be that big or that small. I exaggerate, of course, but a prescriptive regulation stipulates a given solution, a preconceived solution.
With what we will learn from the gulf, we will have to reassess everything we've assumed in terms of what makes an operation like that safe and environmentally sound.