Evidence of meeting #29 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was regulations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
No, there is not. You're correct.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Am I right that the intervenor funding that's available is for travel, but not for research?
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Does that not potentially create a David and Goliath scenario in which the oil companies--
11:50 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
I misheard a few words; I apologize.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Does it not possibly create an unfair discussion, seeing that the energy companies, the oil companies, have a great deal of resources for research, but the intervenors--the first nations, the local citizens--would not have access to any of that type of research, or to lawyers or background information? Is that not a concern to the NEB?
11:50 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
What is of concern to the NEB is to hear what people have to say. For that reason, we will be travelling to every northern community that wishes to speak with us.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I think your access is great and commendable in terms of getting out, but people need to have information in order to contribute positively. Has the NEB considered intervenor funding to allow people to do some of the research that's required? Certainly the oil companies will be doing theirs.
11:50 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
Thank you. I understand your question better now.
Under the NEB Act, for pipeline hearings we do have the legal authority to have participant funding. That includes research. Under COGOA, the Canada Oil and Gas Operations Act, we do not have the legal authority. We're doing all we can within these constraints to be reachable.
We've also invited people who would like to see research done to write to us with suggestions as to what this research could be. We've given people until the end of November to make those suggestions as a means of making information people believe is relevant available to them and to us at the same time.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
The answers to those questions show that this would not be a “thorough review and revision of all federal laws, regulations and policies regarding the development of unconventional sources of oil and gas, including oil sands, deep water oil and gas recovery, and shale gas”. That's not what you're doing.
11:50 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
What we are doing is as broad a review as we feel is necessary within our mandate. We are doing no more than that--
11:50 a.m.
NDP
11:50 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
Within our mandate, we went as broadly as we could, Mr. Cullen. There's no question that we're not asking, which we will have to face one day if an application is filed and if we have to deal with that.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
The reason I ask is that what I just read was part of a motion that was passed unanimously in the House of Commons, asking for a review of all those other aspects. That's not what you're doing.
11:50 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
As we understand it, we're not part of the policy arm of government. We're doing what the board members of the NEB--an independent, quasi-judicial administrative tribunal--have decided to do to deal with our mandate, which is broad enough already.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I'm surprised, Mr. Caron, that in your testimony.... We had you before us, and the other gentleman here, and I asked a very specific question about how long it would take to drill a relief well in the Arctic. You've since written me a letter trying to confirm that.
When I asked you that specific question, you told me you didn't know and didn't have that information. Then we found out later what your briefing notes specifically said. It was in an exchange on a question, which was “How would a same-season relief well work in the Arctic environment?”, which was essentially what I asked you. In your briefing notes, it says:
The wells that are being planned are anticipated to take three (3) seasons to finish. The actual drilling time is about 100 to 120 days but ice conditions and vessel capabilities mean that an operator would likely not have a continuous period to drill a well, hence multiple seasons well.
Would that not have been the honest answer to my direct question?
11:50 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
The honest answer to your question was the one I gave you, honourable member.
Your question, verbatim, was:
Is it possible to have an oil operation in the Arctic in a predominantly ice-filled environment and have same-season relief wells also available to a company?
The chair asked me to be brief. The short answer could have been “yes”, if I relied on the fact that it is possible, because in 2005 Devon had that capability approved by the board. They had same-season relief-well capability available to intervene and kill the well within 60 days.
Had I had time, I could have added that if you go up north, in the Arctic islands, the ice is permanent in some areas. And if you drill from a permanent ice structure, you'll have a situation where, from a relief-well standpoint, you're essentially in the same place you would be with onshore drilling. In that case, again, the answer might very well be yes, but I would be reluctant to tell you yes today because it hasn't been tested.
As we go, I understand, but--
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Do you see why this was confusing and potentially misleading?
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Mr. Cullen, let him complete the answer. He's certainly trying to do so in a concise fashion.
11:55 a.m.
Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
I'm nearly done, Mr. Chair.
If you go in between, so that for drilling a well you have a season and you're constrained by a season of three or four months, depending on the kind of environment you face or the kind of drilling rig you operate with, whatever level it is certified to, you may be able to drill a well in one season, maybe two seasons, or maybe three seasons. That's what the briefing notes you referred to said: to drill a well--not a relief well or any well--can take up to three years. So the board requires, as a matter of policy, that there be same-season relief-well capacity.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Mr. Cullen, your time was up before anyway. You're a couple of minutes over.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
You will get another round.
We'll go now to the government side, to Mr. Allen, for up to seven minutes. And that will complete the initial round.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity.
There are just a couple of things I want to follow up on in regard to Mr. Cullen's questions.
Mr. Caron, thanks for that clarification, because the letter writing that was going on was sort of like a grand inquisition against your comments. So I'm glad you clarified that today.
There is another comment I would like to follow up on. Mr. Ruelokke, you started talking a little bit about the safety culture. I think it was Chevron you were talking about. Also, in your comments, you talked about a billion dollars being spent by these major companies on the advanced undersea containment technologies. I have a couple of questions on that. Has there been any output from some of that analysis that's being done? And when would you expect some output on the billion dollars that will be spent by these major companies on undersea containment? Just as a follow-on to that, to both Nova Scotia and Newfoundland, what would you see as some of the key lessons you, as regulators, have learned from the Gulf of Mexico experience?