Go ahead, Mr. Allen.
Evidence of meeting #43 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was water.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #43 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was water.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Could we have that actually submitted to the clerk of the committee?
4:30 p.m.
Tar Sands Campaigner, Indigenous Environmental Network
Yes, I'd be happy to do that.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
We'll go to the second round, starting with the official opposition.
Mr. Pacetti, you have up to five minutes.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Guilbeault, I have two other quick questions.
You said that when the cost of a barrel of oil hits $150, there is a capital exodus of $20 billion. What does that mean? Could you repeat that?
4:30 p.m.
Co-founder and Deputy Executive Director, Équiterre
That is basically part of the document we will be tabling. It's a study we carried out in cooperation with the Quebec Ministry of Natural Resources and the Department of Finance.
Because Quebec does not have an oil industry, with the exception of two and a half refineries—one of which will soon be shutting down—very little money spent on oil-related issues in Quebec actually remains in Quebec. So, that money is crossing provincial borders. It's used to buy oil from the North Sea, Angola, Venezuela--
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
I see. So, the idea is to use that $20 billion differently.
It's to try and reinvest that $20 billion in Quebec. We are working with the government on the electrification of public transit systems, but also on--
The challenge is that, at the same time as we are spending $20 billion, if we spend that money on oil, we don't have it to invest in new technologies. That is the challenge.
4:30 p.m.
Co-founder and Deputy Executive Director, Équiterre
Or to buy electricity from Hydro-Quebec, rather than buying oil, which is increasingly sourced from countries like Algeria or Angola. That is the strategy we're pursuing.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
I didn't follow you on one of the points you were making.
You referred to an OECD study and mentioned Canada. I didn't understand what you said at the end.
4:30 p.m.
Co-founder and Deputy Executive Director, Équiterre
I was referring to the fact that we have no incentives in place for the production of renewable energy and that this has been noted in several studies, particularly the OECD study. We are one of the rare industrialized countries, if not the only one, not to have a strategy and funding in place to encourage the production of renewable energy. We used to have a fund—the ecoENERGY Fund—which gave about 1¢ per kilowatt-hour to producers of renewable energy. However, the Harper government decided not to renew the funding for that program. Technically, the fund still exists, but there is no more money available. The infrastructure of the fund is still there. There are still a few public servants attached to it, but there is no longer any money to invest in renewable energy and other forms of energy.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Of all the OECD countries, Canada is the only one not to have a fund?
4:30 p.m.
Co-founder and Deputy Executive Director, Équiterre
If we are not the only one, we are certainly one of the only countries not to have one. From memory, I would say we are the only one. I could forward to you the documentation on that. Several OECD studies have been done on this, but I can tell you that the United States has one, the European Union obviously has one, as do Japan and Australia. To my knowledge, all the industrialized countries have policies and incentives in place. We have none. There are some for first-generation biofuels—basically corn ethanol—but not for renewable energy sources such as solar, wind and geothermal energy.
Équiterre is currently building an environmental construction project in Montreal—a platinum LEED project—that will be one of the most efficient in North America in terms of energy consumption per square foot. We received no federal money for this project, even though the federal government funded a similar project in Toronto. I personally worked on a green housing cooperative project—social housing, in other words—aimed particularly at low-income households. We did receive money from Quebec, the Quebec Housing Corporation and the City of Montreal, but we received no federal government grant.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
I'm not surprised. Thank you, Mr. Guilbeault.
Mr. Muller, for a lot of the projects that are happening in the first nations, whether in the territories or in the tribes, wouldn't there have to be some type of a joint venture? The companies wouldn't be able to just come through and dig a pipeline or explore the natural resources, would they?
4:35 p.m.
Tar Sands Campaigner, Indigenous Environmental Network
Of course, within the Athabasca region in and around Fort McMurray, there is an industry-funded group called the IRC, Industry Relations Corporation, for the five tribes of the Athabasca Tribal Council: Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation, Chipewyan Prairie First Nation, Fort McKay First Nation, Fort McMurray No. 468 First Nation, and Mikisew Cree First Nation.
These industry-funded bodies are set up to do a couple of things, one being dealing with the consultation of industry. This is a highly problematic system, however, that does contribute to the erosion of the trust relationship between the federal government and first nations. It is significantly underfunded. The number of applications for new projects that the IRC, who has a handful of staff, has to deal with and respond to within a certain timeframe, which is usually a couple of months, is in the tens of thousands, almost nearly 100,000, so--
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Sorry to interrupt. Your argument is almost in reverse to what Mr. Schmidt is saying. He's saying there's overregulation; you're saying there's not enough.
4:35 p.m.
Tar Sands Campaigner, Indigenous Environmental Network
That may be the case. What I am saying, though, is that the current situation for consultation is in no way adequate. Actually, it's an erosion of first nations sovereignty because of where consultations within new project applications exactly occur. It doesn't happen at the very inception of an idea. It happens near the end, right before the project goes to the energy and conservation.... I can't remember...Alberta Energy always changes its name. But, yes, there are some significant inadequacies right now.
With regard to other regions, for example, Peace River, Beaver Lake, I'm not too sure how their consultation is set up with regard to new project applications.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Pacetti.
Mr. Harris, for up to five minutes. Go ahead, please.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Thomas-Muller, I want to give you a couple of short questions and we'll try to do short answers because we have a short time.
I understand from your testimony that you're not satisfied with the monitoring of the water quality in and around the communities. Is that correct?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
