Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 14th, 2012

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

We've had this discussion a couple of times before at this committee.

[Raymond Ferris]

The environmental assessment is very important for us, because all these issues need to come out. Right now we have not been resourced or provided with any kind of funding to conduct any kind of due diligence to do our own studies so that we can participate in an environmental assessment.

Without any information for first nations, it's impossible for our first nations to participate in an environmental assessment. We cannot sit through an environmental assessment process with no information. That would be just rubber-stamping the process.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I beleive it would be fair to say that not all of your nine first nations are in agreement. Some want to move ahead more quickly than others. Is that correct?

I understand that in your presentation here in October, you basically called for a stop-work order on the development of the project. You say you want to go ahead with it, but one or two of your members have said they want to continue, and they're ready to go ahead and ready for investment. Is that correct?

[Raymond Ferris]

First of all, we never put a stop-work order on anything. We just wanted to have a fair process in which our first nations could be involved. Whether there are some first nations that are ready to move on right now is still unclear.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Can I read from an article? It says that the Webequie were fairly clear that they wanted to move ahead. I think they said that the Matawa tribal council was not a decision-making authority for their first nation and they will determine their own community-led process to guide industry, government, and commercial groups. They said they have built tremendous community capacity over the past three years to become investment-ready and to prepare to take advantage of emerging socio-economic benefits in the Ring of Fire.

Would you say you have some groups that are prepared to move ahead further than others?

[Raymond Ferris]

The statement is correct that the Matawa tribal council does not have the authority to make any kinds of decisions on their behalf, but the authority comes from a collective of first nation chiefs who come together to make decisions. They have passed resolutions regarding the environmental assessment--

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Have you been able to consult with the first nations that have already resolved some of these issues? In Saskatchewan, for example, the Meadow Lake tribal council has been able to do some tremendous economic development as a tribal council. Have you had the opportunity to spend time and energy visiting with them and talking to them about how they've moved ahead?

[Raymond Ferris]

I have worked with them in the past with regard to forestry. The difference between Ontario and Saskatchewan is night and day. The Saskatchewan government works with the first nations. Here there is literally no relationship at all. The people representing the province are talking directly with individual first nations.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

They're a very important component of our province and especially our economic development in the future.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Anderson. Your time is up.

We go now to Mr. Gravelle for up to seven minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

This committee has just finished a study on refining and pipelines here in Canada. We've noticed that refining is on the decline in Canada. It would be sad if we were to say the same thing about minerals being processed outside of Canada.

Mr. Boor, do our mining company witnesses support refining minerals in Canada? We've read stories quoting Cliffs Natural Resources as indicating that they are going to refine some of the ore in northern Ontario and ship some more out to Asia. This might make the difference between 500 jobs and thousands. What portion of Canada's chromite production would be processed in Canada, and what amount would be shipped to Asia?

[William Boor]

In rough terms, about 40% would be exported as concentrate. It would be processed at the mine site to a concentrate level and sold into that market.

On the question of whether we support refining in Canada, we absolutely do. The heart of our project is the production of ferrochrome. The issue at play here is really a market issue. What we've done is propose the largest ferrochrome processing facility we can envision, given the market dynamics of that industry, and we feel that we are being very aggressive there.

The viability of our project is supplemented by the ability to export concentrate into world markets that are already established for that product. These work together to justify the project. One point I would disagree with is that if we were not able to export that concentrate, we would not be able to see our way clear to building more refining capacity at this stage because of market constraints, and therefore we'd have to actually descale the project and create fewer jobs as an outcome.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Do you know if you need the approval of the province or the federal government to ship concentrates outside of Canada?

[William Boor]

I think that's a legal question. We can assume that we would need an exception under section 91 of the Mining Act.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

There's been talk of building your refinery in either Manitoba or Quebec because of the lower cost of electricity. What might the Government of Ontario have to do to convince you to build your refinery in northern Ontario?

[William Boor]

Let me start by saying that from day one—day one for us is early 2010—we've been in very good discussions with the Province of Ontario on all aspects of the project. The furnace siting decision is not purely a power decision. Logistics, labour, and a lot of other things also play into it.

Power is a big component of it. Beyond that, I would have to say that I don't want to get too deeply into the conversations that are going on with the various provinces.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Chief Ferris said, “ We wish to stress that we are not against these developments, nor are we trying to delay the process; Rather, we are trying to move ahead as quickly as we can”.

Can you comment on that, Mr. Boor?

[William Boor]

There is an intent. One thing I can say is that from the beginning, in dealing with the various first nations communities, there has been a bias toward figuring out the right way to do this development. I think there is general acceptance that this holds a great opportunity for the first nations, so I don't disagree with the statement that the first nations communities have been supportive of the development; they have very legitimate concerns about the environment and other aspects of the project that have to be addressed.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Do you have any plans to train the first nations? Is there a plan in process?

[William Boor]

These are the great areas of a project, because our objectives are exactly aligned. In this case, they want jobs, and we actually need people in this area. It's a remote area, and so the best solution for us is to train people in those communities.

I would say that we need to be working together. We haven't gotten to that stage in the development. I think we need to get into MOUs, memorandums of understanding, to clarify how to do that.

Cliffs has a very clear picture of the different jobs that need to be filled, and we're anxious to work together with the communities to talk about how we can specifically train.... I want names next to this discussion, instead of just a concept of training. I feel as though we're late in that process.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

How many first nations people do you see Cliffs Natural Resources employing?

[William Boor]

Given the size of the employment numbers we talked about earlier, there's a tremendous opportunity. I don't have a specific target. The question is really how many people want these sorts of jobs and how many can we get trained in the time that we have. The more the better, from our perspective, because we need the labour.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

I believe the road that you want to build is an all-season road. What kind of an impact would that have on the environment?

[William Boor]

I think these things can be done in environmentally responsible ways. That'll be proven through the EA process. I don't see it as necessarily being a significant negative impact on the environment.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.