Evidence of meeting #26 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Kennedy Stewart NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Then you're saying the joint panel review gives a comprehensive sense that lets people look at all aspects, rather than a somewhat narrow review of...
NDP
Kennedy Stewart NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Okay.
I'll move over to Mr. Coombes and Mr. Boor. If this project was located next to your home, where you'd lived forever, would you say that the comprehensive review process is reasonable, something that is okay in your area, or do you think you would want something more comprehensive?
Senior Vice-President, Global Ferroalloys, Cliffs Natural Resources Inc.
One of the main things I'd like to dispel is the concept that longer equals more rigorous or more thorough. The comprehensive review can address the things that I've heard. I've heard that the first nations communities are worried about translation and being able to ask questions and give input; that can all happen under a comprehensive review. They are concerned about time, because they think the process would be rushed; however, there's no really firm time limit on a comprehensive review. There's a timeline that starts and stops. It goes on for as long as it takes to be completed.
I differ on the full review of impacts challenge as well because the output of both processes is the same: an environmental assessment. What's important is how you work within the process, and I think the comprehensive review gives the advantage that we can customize and work together to put together committees and whatnot to ensure the involvement, whereas a panel review goes to an independent panel and is a much less controlled process from that perspective.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Stewart.
Mr. Daniel, you have up to five minutes. Go ahead, please.
February 14th, 2012 / 10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair and witnesses. It's good to see you all here.
This looks like a great opportunity for both the companies and the first nations. We should be anticipating both the needs of the company and the needs of the first nations, yet we seem to be focusing on things like trades. If I look at the websites for these companies, I see that they have great positions in IT, in management, in supervisory roles, etc. I don't see you guys on the first nations side thinking of taking up some of these more comprehensive roles for which you can get training now almost anywhere in Canada. Can you comment on that? Is that something to do with the culture, or is it something else?
Coordinator, Ring of Fire, Matawa First Nations
It's good to say one thing, but to actually do it is very difficult. It's difficult to understand that.
Yes, we do like to get those opportunities. In the past we've heard enough talk; what we want is actual agreements that say let's do this, let's work out this process together and identify the roles and how we're going to put this all together, rather than just saying that these are the opportunities that are there. How do we achieve them when we're not provided with any kind of funding?
That is just one component of an agreement that allows us to spell out what our roles are going to be throughout the whole process. We need to know where we stand right now. We don't know where we stand. We're so far behind. We feel we're far behind.
Deputy Grand Chief, Nishnawbe Aski Nation
Deputy Grand Chief Les Louttit
Traditionally, training has been viewed as providing labour jobs to first nations rather than to communities. There are very few skilled labourers within those communities, and even those who do have skills are either working elsewhere or have to compete with unions and other entities to get those jobs. There are no guarantees.
Yes, our people are in training. A lot of students from these communities are in community colleges and universities in northern Ontario, and they are studying in all these fields that you talk about: management, IT, and other technologies in trade schools. If they had the opportunity, I'm sure they would take that advantage.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
When I look at your website for the nations and at the education programs you have there, they don't match up with the potential jobs that are going to be available. Have you thought about how you can rearrange that to meet your needs and have people able to go into these positions?
Coordinator, Ring of Fire, Matawa First Nations
We'd like to be able to sit down with the companies and the industry and identify how we're going to move this education and training process along. Right now we're concerned that contracts usually go to the lowest proposal, which doesn't take into account the capacity-building within those contracts. It boils down to having agreements with first nations and the funding necessary. First of all, we have to identify what kind of inventory we have, so we're working at that.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
My concern is that you're going to miss the boat. By the time the jobs are available and things are happening like that, you're going to have people from the outside communities coming in and taking those skilled jobs that you folks really should have. That is what will keep your people in the same area.
Coordinator, Ring of Fire, Matawa First Nations
When you apply for dollars from the government, they ask where we're going to get these jobs and where we're working. Without an agreement, it's difficult to get this kind of funding.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
I guess I'm missing it somewhere. Your folks can go to any of the colleges and universities to get these skills in IT, management, or supervisory roles, right? Do you need any special funding for that, or is it the same as any other Canadian going to school and getting those skills?
Coordinator, Ring of Fire, Matawa First Nations
I'm talking about the trades, apprenticeships, and things like that. If you want to follow through with a company, then the government views these and says we need--
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
I'm suggesting that you're shooting way too low if you concentrate on the trades. I think there are opportunities way above the trades that you as first nations should be able to compete for and win. You could keep your people in the local area rather than getting IT skills and going off to Toronto. You should be able to anticipate that. I think there are some huge opportunities for the nations to be able to do well out of that. That's my train of thought there.
If these jobs weren't there, what else would your folks be doing?
Coordinator, Ring of Fire, Matawa First Nations
There would not be much happening in the communities.
If we look back at the past and at what has happened in our communities, we've watched trees go by our communities. There are entities such as unions. We had been in battles with them in the past and we were unable to get on with the unions. There are those kinds of issues. We want to sort all this out before any of that happens.
Conservative
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
I'd like the Deputy Grand Chief to expand a little on a comment he made a while ago about the De Beers training centre being vacant. If the aboriginal skills and employment partnership were renewed, what kind of training would be available at the De Beers site?
Deputy Grand Chief, Nishnawbe Aski Nation
Deputy Grand Chief Les Louttit
What should be taking place is an inventory of all the potential jobs from these companies that are going to be developing our resources. Having identified those different areas, whether they be skilled or non-skilled, technical or managerial, the companies could provide the training programs and the facility could be used.
I was there a week and a half ago, and it was boarded up. I'm sure that with some request to the First Nation of Attawapiskat and De Beers, which built it, there could be an opportunity for at least an initial training program for the people from the area who'd want the jobs. It seems a waste that this facility was built and is standing idle.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
Mr. Boor, if the aboriginal skills and employment partnership program were renewed, would your company be interested in training aboriginals at that De Beers site?
Senior Vice-President, Global Ferroalloys, Cliffs Natural Resources Inc.
I can say categorically that our company's interested in getting into the training programs, and we'll use any tools that are offered to us to do that. The missing ingredient so far has been getting to the discussions that we need with the communities to be specific about those training needs.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
As mines progress in life, a lot of tailings are emitted. How much tailings would this mine produce? What would you do with the tailings?
Senior Vice-President, Global Ferroalloys, Cliffs Natural Resources Inc.
In my immediate memory about the current state of the development.... I mean, there would obviously be tailings. We've got a storage facility in our design at the mine site for the tailings, and it meets the length of time of this mine. I can't give you the actual tonnage off the top of my head because I'm afraid to misquote it.