Natural Resources Committee on March 27th, 2012

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

The government remains determined to promote energy efficiency. We have invested an additional amount of $117 million in energy efficiency projects to help businesses and Canadian households make better choices and, as a result, to save energy. But in a period of fiscal restraint, it is also a matter of being prudent.

Frankly, I find it a little surprising, as I said, that the NDP is pushing so hard to reinstitute a program that was completed, a program that they themselves opposed in the first place.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Minister.

Merci, Madame Day.

We go now to Mr. Trost, for about three minutes, please.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll make it very brief, Mr. Minister. In our study on northern resource development, northern mining, there were discussions about the GEM program. It's coming up to its fourth year.

I am wondering specifically about the GEM program and geomapping in general. Where do you see the department going? How do you see it developing? And in whatever time we have, could you talk about any other programs and initiatives your department has to help develop our mineral resources in northern Canada?

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

This is really an excellent program. Through this geomapping for energy and minerals program, we're investing $100 million over five years to expand and modernize our geoscience and knowledge base.

GEM is exploring innovative approaches to help aboriginal communities benefit from the new knowledge it generates. For example, Nunascience is a new initiative being piloted by Iqaluit's Arctic College to make GEM project results accessible and understandable to all northerners, including local governments, land use planners, elders, and students.

The GEM program over the years has generated some $3 for every $1 in government expenditure. The $3 is in exploration, and then of course development will follow from that. It is doing what private companies cannot or haven't been able to do, and that is to map large sections of the north to focus companies on areas that are most promising and then to provide that information free to everyone. That results in a kind of gold rush mentality, where companies will stake claims and commence exploration activities. That is producing employment, economic activity, and revenue for governments.

It's a very successful program. We're very proud of it, and we intend to see it continue.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

You have a minute.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Are there any other initiatives that we haven't covered as far as northern mineral resources? You dealt specifically with GEM, but is there anything else?

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Are you speaking of the north specifically?

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

I'm speaking of the north specifically.

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

You know, Canada has tremendous potential for mineral development in the north. We're only beginning to tap that potential. We also have a national targeted geoscience initiative. We've invested $25 million in this program to support the development of next generation geoscience knowledge and innovative techniques to help ensure industry has the tools it needs to search more effectively for the deep mineral deposits that will be crucial to the mining future over the long term.

We're expecting almost 140 million new mining projects alone to break ground across Canada. We have several key ingredients in place to attract investments, such as competitive tax rates, a stable political environment, non-discriminatory regulatory policies. Then, of course, we have to get on with modernizing the regulatory environment because that can also affect the ability to attract our potential investments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Trost.

Thank you to all members of the committee for their questions for the minister. This meeting will continue after a short break.

I want to thank you, Minister, for coming today, for answering the questions, and for your presentation to start the meeting. I know we'll see you again at committee some time in the not too distant future.

Thank you.

I'll suspend the meeting for a minute or two as the minister leaves. As the other officials come to the table, then we'll continue the meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We will resume the committee meeting with officials from the Department of Natural Resources.

Thank you very much, both, for being here. Mr. Dupont, you were at the table with the minister, of course.

We will continue questioning from where we left off. Mr. Stewart, if you're ready, go ahead, please, for up to five minutes.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming here today.

Last June the minister promised to develop a national energy strategy. He made a commitment to do this, and he's recommitted a number of times since. I'm wondering if you can give us some indication of how this is coming along, if we can expect, perhaps, discussion papers on this strategy, if there'll be public forums, or if there's anything in the budget, for example, that's specifically allocated to this task.

[Serge Dupont, Deputy Minister, Department of Natural Resources]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do not recall the record, sir, showing the minister would have committed to launching a national energy strategy. There were a number of parties across Canada asking for such a strategy. The minister met with his counterparts from the provinces and territories in Kananaskis at a meeting that he co-chaired with Mr. Ron Liepert of Alberta, at which time ministers agreed—all of them—to pursue a collaborative approach to energy in Canada. A document was laid out at that time with certain themes and headings that continue to guide the work of officials in helping jurisdictions work together towards shared objectives in the area of energy policy. The minister did not commit or undertake to launch a national energy strategy that would be a federal kind of perspective on Canada's energy future.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

So there is no national energy strategy. We shouldn't be expecting one in the future.

[Serge Dupont]

I'm saying that there is work proceeding on a range of energy issues, collaboratively with provinces and territories. Government was very clear in its statement in Kananaskis that governments share a wide range of objectives with regard to energy. We're working collaboratively, respectful of each one's jurisdiction.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

So there's nothing in this budget, for example, or these estimates, that we would have any additional meetings with the provinces, with first nations, with affected industry partners? Nothing like that, that we could expect in the near future?

[Serge Dupont]

There are regular consultations with a wide range of parties right across Canada. The minister meets domestically and internationally with a wide range of parties. The energy and mines ministers' meetings occur on an annual basis. Officials work to support those discussions through the year. Therefore, there is collaborative work done on energy through the year and it continues to be done.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

It just seems bizarre that we're developing into a so-called energy super power but we have no plan for it. I'll leave that, but thank you for your response.

I'm also wondering, have there been any studies conducted by your department concerning how decreasing the Canadian Brent crude differential, as we've heard from the minister, will affect domestic gas prices?

[Serge Dupont]

Domestic gasoline prices...?

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

That's right.

[Serge Dupont]

Fundamentally, Canada's gasoline prices.... We've had officials from my department come to testify before this committee around gasoline prices and around refining capacity. There's a wide range of factors that take place that affect gasoline prices over time, from the price of crude oil internationally and the North American market, refining margins, retailing margins, provincial taxes, and so forth. These evolve over time; all of these variables evolve.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Sure, but if the differential decreases and we use primarily oil from Alberta—at least in the west of Canada—for our gasoline production and consumption, does this necessarily lead to a gasoline price increase? Even if this possibility exists, I was wondering if your department has done any specific studies on this aspect of the differential decrease.

[Serge Dupont]

If you're asking if the department has done any specific study to essentially connect one to one the Brent and WTI differential to gasoline prices in Canada, the answer, to my knowledge, would be no. Again, gasoline prices respond to quite a range of market factors, international, domestic, and from both upstream and downstream parts of the sector.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

The primary determinant would be the price of the crude from which the gasoline is distilled, I imagine. Have there been any wider studies on this? Again, this is why we're calling for a national energy strategy and why we're developing such a strategy ourselves, because these factors and how they're going to affect Canadians should be looked at. It seems to be a very piecemeal approach. Whatever pipeline is proposed, the government backs indiscriminately.

To your knowledge, there hasn't been anything on how this is going to affect domestic consumers?