Evidence of meeting #43 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was yukon.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Yukon Chamber of Commerce
No, because it doesn't streamline the rules. It only streamlines the process. That's what it is. It's a process.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
Absolutely. The strength of the legislation is still there. The process is just reducing duplication and barriers. I understand fully.
I have a question for both of you, then.
When it comes to employment and the opportunities that are presented through natural resource development in your respective areas, what have we seen insofar as the aboriginal employment rate is concerned? Has it benefited significantly? Is there a large difference between the aboriginal and the non-aboriginal employment rates in your respective jurisdictions?
President, Yukon Chamber of Commerce
I have never seen that breakdown within the territory of aboriginal and non-aboriginal employment. What we have seen is that through impact and benefit agreements between a proponent and a first nation, where they're operating in their traditional territory, the training has definitely increased. The participation of the first nation community in a project has increased. I believe that at the Minto mine, which is owned by Capstone industries, their first nation participation is about 40%, so I think that's quite significant. We're seeing more and more of that in the Klondike region. Businesses are used that are first nations-owned and operated, and individuals are being employed as well.
Conservative
President, Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce
I'll echo Ms. Babcock's comments that through impact and benefit agreements, there are percentages that need to be northern hired and percentages that need to be northern-aboriginal hired, which is excellent. I said earlier that 75 to 100 aboriginal-owned businesses have been created through impact and benefit agreements in the last 16 years in the Northwest Territories, which has been a boon to the economy.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Mr. Calkins, being that you asked, no. Otherwise, you would have had five seconds. But thank you very much, Mr. Calkins.
We go now to Mr. Nicholls, for up to five minutes. Go ahead, please.
NDP
Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Babcock and Mr. Graham, for being here with us today to offer your information.
Mr. Graham, you mentioned, and touched upon briefly, the support for training and funding for aboriginal groups as well as the duty to consult. Section 35 of the 1982 Constitution Act outlines aboriginal rights, and it's considered that in any relation between the crown and aboriginal groups, the honour of the crown is at stake. This is outlined in precedents such as Haida Nation v. British Columbia in 2004 and the Taku River Tlingit First Nation v. British Columbia in 2004.
I'm wondering if you can speak to the relation between the crown and the Sahtu Dene, and can you expand on the challenges? For example, are consultation materials from the federal government distributed to aboriginal groups in North Slavey? Do they provide materials in that language?
President, Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce
I'm sorry, I can't comment on that. I'm not privy to any of that consultation information.
NDP
Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I see.
You mentioned before in earlier testimony today the seven years it took to consult aboriginal groups, which I'll get back to in a second. Under the new regime outlined in Bill C-38, large development decisions can be overridden by cabinet if they're judged to be important. What do you think the first nations will think about this decision and change? What effect will that have on the idea of the honour of the crown?
President, Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce
Again, I don't know if I can comment on that other than to say that the land claims are protected under the Constitution, and I think that's primary.
NDP
Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
You mentioned the problems with the regulatory process. Part of the process and part of the regulations is this duty to consult. As you mentioned, in the Mackenzie Valley, it took seven years to consult aboriginal groups. If this is identified as a regulatory problem, I'm having trouble seeing the fact that it's being cited as a problem, when we've agreed with each other today that it's a constitutional duty of the crown to uphold aboriginal rights. Would you agree with me?
President, Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce
I would agree with you. But I believe that the flaw in the Joint Review Panel's consultation was that there was no timeline to it—
Conservative
President, Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce
Again, there was no timeline to the Joint Review Panel's consultation process and then the decision to the National Energy Board. When there were no timelines in place, the JRP was given free reign to take as much time as it....
NDP
Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Section 35 mentions nothing about timelines.
You also commented on difficulties with regulatory agencies. I'd like to talk about programs at Aurora College. Are you suggesting that institutions such as Aurora College are not properly training natural resource technicians to deal with regulations?
President, Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce
I'm not an expert on Aurora College and what their training programs are, sorry.
NDP
Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
But this is one of the main institutions in the north to train aboriginal peoples to work in the industry. To me, it seems to be part of the program to safeguard and manage environmental consultations with aboriginal groups. One of the program objectives is to, “Clearly communicate resource management policies, procedures and decisions to various stakeholders at the community and territorial level”, and to deal with different agencies, such as the provincial and federal governments. Are you suggesting that this institution is not doing its job?
President, Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce
I'm not suggesting that at all. In the environmental processes that take place with the Mackenzie Valley environmental review boards in the Northwest Territories, we are not seeing very many issues at that level.
NDP
Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Another issue is the two-year cap that's going to be put in place. Don't you see that as posing constitutional challenges with section 35? If the crown has a duty to consult, how can you cut off the length of the consultation periods with aboriginal groups? How can you tell aboriginal groups they only have two years to say their piece and that you're then going to go ahead with this? Won't there be constitutional challenges down the road from the fact of the duty to consult in section 35?
President, Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce
I believe you could do the consultation and regulatory process in a two-year window if you removed the duplication that exists in the system today.
NDP
Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Do you think the first nations groups would agree with you about that?