Natural Resources Committee on June 21st, 2012

[Karina Briño]

I have to say that unfortunately I'm not able to speak to what meets the National Energy Board process. I don't have first-hand experience that I can relate to you. I apologize for that.

I can speak, though, in terms of what mining projects go through when it comes to the regulatory process, and what timelines actually do to us. Again, this is not just about the federal environmental reviews, it's also all of the provincial requirements that need to be met.

As we look at the changes and what the new model is going to look like, one of the things that we need to also keep in mind is that there is going to be an increased expectation on the proponent side to be absolutely ready to enter the process when the clock kicks in. Until now there has been a lot of back and forth, and sometimes it is the proponent's responsibility to actually go back and do more homework and do more research and provide more information. With this change, with this new model, as I said, the onus will be on the proponent to be absolutely ready.

Do I agree with the timelines, the one year and the two years? Absolutely, because it's going to mean more work for us at the onset as well. The Red Chris mine, which was just permitted in British Columbia, for example, is a very good case study in terms of how long it can take to get a mine permitted in B.C. The environmental assessment certificate was issued a few years ago. They just got the Mines Act permit. Two years to build. It's not going to be in operation until 2014. That mine should have been operating a long time ago.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

Forgive me, it was the environmental assessment process I was referring to.

One of my cousins, actually, has gone through the UBC mining program. At the time, when he started it five years ago, I had no idea what he was doing. It wasn't something that people in the southern part of British Columbia, where I'm from, typically go into. Of course, now I see, with the average salary of $115,000, why he's perhaps smarter than I am—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

—in going into that field.

We're talking about mining in the north. What efforts is the mining association making in the south of British Columbia, where the population is concentrated, to reach out to high school students and say to them that this is a great career and to consider going into the industry? As you've said, there's going to be a massive requirement for human capital, and I'm just wondering what programs are out there to reach out to people like my cousin, who obviously got the message somehow. I'm just wondering what the program is there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Ms. Briño, a 30-second answer, please.

[Karina Briño]

Okay.

Through the mining association, there is a K-to-12 program. Companies take busloads of kids to the operations, to teach them what mining is all about.

There are several other programs in the vicinity of the Lower Mainland where they get first-hand experience as to what mining is all about. They also work with the teachers, so teachers have complete packages of information they can pass on to the children in their classrooms.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Strahl.

Monsieur Gravelle, up to five minutes, please.

Go ahead.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For the benefit of Mr. Strahl, I'd like to tell him that he makes quite a bit more money than his cousin in British Columbia. He doesn't wear a suit and tie to go to work, and he doesn't work in an air-conditioned office.

It's good that he's making that much money when you take the work environment into consideration.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

He doesn't have a secure job, though.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Ms. Kuzenko, Vale, formerly Inco, has done a lot of improvements to the environment over the last several years.

For the benefit of my colleagues, can you give us a brief overview of what Inco, Vale, has done to improve the environment over the last several years?

[Jody Kuzenko]

Yes. Thank you for that opportunity.

The issue of air is getting most of the airtime these days, pardon the pun. We're spending a lot of money to reduce sulphur dioxide emissions, nickel emissions, and CEPA-toxic metals. With less contaminants going into the air environment, that creates the opportunity for us to do a lot of work on soil and water in the Sudbury basin.

We are really quite busy, and have been for many years, regreening Sudbury. It's a national story that we wear with pride.

For those of you who have had the opportunity to visit recently.... Compared to what it looked like when I grew up there in the 1970s, it used to be what they called a moonscape—barren rock. Our open roast yards and our smelting processes would emit contaminants into the air that virtually decimated everything in their path.

We've embarked on a very aggressive program of aerial seeding, community regreening, biodiversity action plans, and have spent countless millions of dollars doing that. It's something we're very proud of.

As I said, because of our air emissions reductions the lakes have come back to life. This calendar year, we've raised fish in our greenhouses. We raise something like 250,000 seedlings each year, to plant them in areas where we once left a negative legacy.

This was our first year for raising fish. So we pull up ore and we raise fish, and have restocked a local river in the area with some 200,000 fingerling trout. We're going to be moving that aquarium underground next year, and it's something we're very excited about.

We continue to work at it piece by piece, with the overall mantra of leaving a net positive legacy in the communities in which we operate.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

I'm going to ask you a yes or no question. I'm also going to ask you a follow-up question to give you a chance to expand.

Do you believe companies have a corporate responsibility to clean up their sites?

[Jody Kuzenko]

Yes.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Why?

[Jody Kuzenko]

We made the mess.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

I believe it was Mr. Amos who said that with the environmental assessments some of the rules are known after the fact, when the mines or sites are started. We've heard several times during our meetings here, from various companies, that if the government told them what the rules were they would follow them and budget accordingly.

Do you believe that if the companies knew the rules before they started that it would be profitable to them?

[Prof. William Amos]

Speaking specifically to the issue of offshore drilling, I have no doubt that the major oil companies that are capable of making the investments necessary to engage in exploration and eventual production activities have the capital to finance whatever form of regulatory process is required, prior to going into production and profiting. I don't think that's the issue for them.

I think that, yes, if the rules are made clear from the beginning, then they will follow those rules and they'll abide by the process. The critical point I was making was that the process is insufficient with regard to offshore drilling. Prior to issuing exploration licences we need a broader process, a strategic process that allows for the identification, for example, of areas in the Beaufort that ought to be protected. One ought to know where you should not drill prior to issuing rights to drill. It simply makes no sense.

There are processes under way in the Beaufort, but there remains a gap with regard to broad, strategic environmental assessment prior to the issuance of exploration licences. That's necessarily going to, in my opinion, cause challenges down the line when there are areas where rights have been issued but community groups and environmental groups say, “You've issued a licence there, but this is right beside where the belugas come.” In my opinion it will slow things down.

So I think that if there is an investment made in a comprehensive process early on, the ultimate result is more responsible and more profitable development later on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Gravelle.

We go now to Mr. Allen, for up to five minutes.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here.

I'd like to start with Ms. Kuzenko and Mr. Macdonald.

I don't think anybody has brought this up before, but in regard to the major projects management office and the northern projects management office, have either of you or your companies had any dealing or interface with those organizations in terms of the regulatory process as a way to make them more efficient?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We will start with Mr. Macdonald. Go ahead, please.

[Gordon Macdonald]

Actually, our development came after the major project review office, so we haven't had an opportunity to interact with them yet.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you.

Ms. Kuzenko.

[Jody Kuzenko]

The same reason.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you.

Mr. Macdonald, I appreciated your comments on subsection 35(2) of the Fisheries Act and some of the challenges with respect to habitat. Having worked on construction projects before, I've been involved in some of the habitat compensation issues and know some of the challenges there may be in getting consistent interpretation out of DFO. It's hardly the Holy Grail that everybody perceives it to be.

Can you talk a little bit with respect to your suggestions for perhaps some of the regulation with the new legislation?

I would look for some input from Ms. Briño and Ms. Kuzenko on this as well. When it comes to habitat, what do you see as the next step now that the legislation will be passed? What are some of the regulations that would be helpful with respect to habitat and your requirement when habitat is damaged for commercial, recreational, and aboriginal fisheries? Just exactly how would you see better regulations on that front?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Macdonald, go ahead, please.