Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2011

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for being here.

I'm from New Brunswick--obviously not a northern area--where we are seeing a lot of development and potential development now. So some of the questions I'm going to ask will try to compare processes a little bit.

One of the things mentioned during the presentation on participation in the review was technical, scientific information, like acid rock drainage, and that type of thing. Just how extensive is your warehouse of scientific information on the various impacts of different mining operations? Importantly, how is this information used to support projects or project applications? Is that information available to just projects in the north, where the federal government would have jurisdiction, or would it also be available as part of the environmental impact process for projects in New Brunswick and other provinces as well?

[Anil Arora]

The short answer is that we do have quite a rich base to draw from. We use that to assess new projects as they come along--not just individual projects, but the cumulative effect of several projects in a particular area.

We play a lead role in working with provinces and territories on a number of pretty important initiatives. You mentioned the MEND project looking at the impact of acid drainage over time. We work with our provincial colleagues and use that information from one project to another, so our scientific base is always updated with the unique information of various projects. So whether it's in New Brunswick, or Alberta, or Saskatchewan, or up in the north, that repository of information is available to our colleagues and industry as far as best practices are concerned for reducing the production of acid drainage, and for the monitoring and control of it.

We also play a leadership role in the national orphaned and abandoned mines initiative. It's another example where we cooperate and collaborate with our provincial and territorial colleagues in trying to deal with some of the legacy mines. They're the abandoned mines, where companies were responsible for particular projects back in the forties or fifties, before such initiatives as putting up bonds for reclamation of mines, and so on, were put in place. The companies may have gone out of business, or whatever.

Again, there's a rich repository. We take a lead role with our colleagues in an initiative to find best practices. In fact, international communities have looked to us to replicate the MEND and NOAMI projects within their own areas.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

If you have information on, for example, something like tungsten mining or anything like that.... I would assume that if proponents were going to be in a province, they would enter into an environmental impact assessment through that province, and then we would support it federally in whatever way. I'm assuming that some of this information might come into play as part of that environmental impact assessment process.

[Anil Arora]

My colleagues are eager to jump in.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

I see that.

[Anil Arora]

So I'll let them.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

I'm excited that both of them want to jump in.

[Ginny Flood]

You're absolutely right. It doesn't really differentiate what province we're in. We provide two different aspects. In one case, we could actually be a regulator, and so we would be providing advice based on our regulatory responsibility related to the Explosives Act. Within that, we also have a role as the federal authority, based on expertise. We would be advising other departments, such as the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, Environment Canada, Transport Canada, and others in their decision-making on the impacts and the ways to reduce the impacts of mining activity on the environment.

We are also engaged in discussions on mine design, ensuring that we have the best practices in play, as well as on mine closure. In Canada right now, in order to avoid getting into contaminated sites and abandoned mines, we look at mine closure. It is a key area that needs to be part of the front end of the process, not the back end. So we actually put a lot of effort into that, as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. O'Neill, you wanted to respond as well.

[Patrick O'Neill]

Yes, I just wanted to enunciate the areas we do comment on. As Ginny said, there is the actual mine engineering, and there is geology; explosives; mine effluents; minerals and metals science; permafrost, which is primarily a north-of-60 issue; hydrology; seismology; and glaciology, as well. We have an extensive knowledge base to bring to bear.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you all.

We go now to the next questioner.

Mr. Harris, you have up to five minutes.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, presenters, for your very interesting input.

We're pretty much focused on what referred to as minerals in your presentation. In gathering information, does Natural Resources extend it to other types of earth materials that can be mined, such as specialized quarry rock and things like that. Do you identify those, as well as areas where you would find zinc or copper or gold or iron?

[Anil Arora]

Yes, we do indeed look at gravel and quartzites and different types of materials in two ways. One is when we are involved in looking at the resource potential of a particular area—let's say an input towards defining what might be conservancy areas or parks and so on. We do a full assessment that takes into account the whole gamut of what might have economic potential and that needs to be considered in those processes.

Second, as was discussed earlier, where we bring into play either a regulatory role or a federal expertise role, once again, we certainly take into account the economic potential of the full range, if you like, of the minerals and metals that are present.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

All right.

I don't know if someone asked the following question. I'm curious about how many indirect jobs are created as a result of one mining job. If the question was asked, I apologize, but I missed the response.

[Anil Arora]

I think that's an excellent question.

In Canada, I think if you go back to 2010, 308,000 people overall were involved directly in mining, and that's from the start to the downstream aspects. There have been some estimates that for every direct job, there are at least another two, if not three in some cases, indirect jobs created, whether they're in the financial sector; the legal sector; construction; or the catering, for example, that goes into a mine camp; roads, or water; and so on. It is a significant multiplier of employment, indeed.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I wanted to ask where our minerals go. I know they're refined to a certain extent in Canada and then shipped out in a purer form to buyers, I think, primarily in Asia right now—except for the diamonds, of course, which may go somewhere else. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Is that our major market for minerals from Canada's north right now?

[Anil Arora]

From all of Canada—

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

From all of Canada.

[Anil Arora]

—our minerals tend to head south to the United States. So it certainly remains a very significant market for most of our materials. However, with the emerging economies, we are seeing more and more diversity, if you like, in terms of markets. We're seeing expansion to markets such as China, and to a lesser extent to India. Certainly, we still have good markets for a number of our materials in Europe as well.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

The last question I think I have time for is about foreign investment in our mining. I know for example there's a mine up in Yukon called Yukon Zinc, which recently had a large investment from a Chinese company—or from the Chinese government indirectly, I guess, through a Chinese company.

How much of a stake is a foreign country or a foreign company permitted to take in a mining project in Canada?

[Anil Arora]

My colleagues from Industry Canada look at the Investment Canada Act and do the final determination, and it's the minister, through the Governor in Council, who decides ultimately. As you're aware, there are limits on investments. Investments that exceed those limits are subject to a net benefit test. For non-WTO countries that limit is $5 million. For WTO countries, according to WTO rules, the limit this year is about $312 million, and any investment that exceeds that amount must undergo the net benefit test.

There is only one exception, and that is uranium, for obvious reasons. Essentially, for all other minerals, the net benefit test is applied. As we have discussed, there are some real advantages to Canada from that foreign investment.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

We go now to Monsieur Lapointe for up to five minutes.

Go ahead.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Would it be possible to obtain charts showing an itemized breakdown of export markets, to see where we are with regard to the Americans, Indians, Chinese and Europeans? Would that be possible?