Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 17th, 2011

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

There were probably a few. A few people worked there, but not many.

Obviously, most of the people who work there work for your department. If the organization chart is full, how full is that organization chart in Iqaluit with personnel on the ground?

[Mitch Bloom]

We have the people we need on the ground, if that is the question. I am not sure--

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Were the head office functions such as the chief financial officer and chief executive officer slated to go to Iqaluit?

[Mitch Bloom]

I don't know if a position was slated to go. I can't honestly answer that one either, other than that.... I can be honest with you; as I said earlier, the position is in Ottawa right now.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

You were honest with us in telling us that most of the people who work there had been there previously, but quite obviously they couldn't have been.

[Mitch Bloom]

That's the difference between the headquarters function and the regional function. There were no headquarters because there was no independent department. That had to be established afterwards.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Aren't most of the problems with the internal audit the problems you've had with the head office development?

[Mitch Bloom]

Again, as I said earlier, I am in no position to comment on the audit.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Okay.

Madam King, there are two things that almost everybody has agreed with that need to be done to the environmental assessment process in the north. One of them is to get the land use plans in place and the other is to build the capacity of the organizations in the north to deal with the environmental assessment. What work are you doing to accomplish that?

[Janet King]

The land use plans are essential to moving ahead with the development of effective and clear regulatory regimes. It is helpful to have the land use plans available. There are currently land use plans for the Gwich'in settlement area and some areas of Nunavut. Draft plans are actively being developed in the Sahtu settlement area and for Nunavut. We are working on an interim Dehcho plan. Lots of work is ongoing with respect to land use planning.

We continue to invest in board capacity, working both to ensure sufficient annual funding and to address related project workload demands as well as offering a variety of training programs. It is a little different in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut to work to build the capacity of the members and officers of the boards.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Your time is up, Mr. Bevington.

We go now to Mr. Allen, for up to five minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to follow up where I left off last time on the timelines for this. There's a project in my riding in New Brunswick that is actually going through an environmental impact assessment. They just went through the terms of reference, which were published in August. Then there'll be a year for the company to actually put together their environmental impact assessment. After that there will be a year for the approval. They've set the timeline as a year for that approval. So sometime in the fall of 2013 this could all shake out.

Do you envision a process like that, where you would set specific timelines as part of the regulatory aspect of what you're looking at for the north? Are you looking at a timeline on approval of these projects that would be somewhat similar in order to be consistent across the country? Is that even realistic?

[Janet King]

I can't speak to specific comparisons of absolute timelines. Unfortunately, I just don't have that information.

I can tell you, as tabled in the legislation for the Nunavut project and planning act, that we have laid out proposed timelines to guide the timing for decisions, to move through that regulatory process, and environmental assessment is one part of that.

I can't do the math right now to add up what all of those pieces would accumulate to, to respond to your absolute comparison. But we could provide that information to you.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

That would be great. But offhand, do you have the timeline for the environmental impact assessment portion of it that you're proposing?

[Janet King]

I don't have that information specifically at hand, my apologies. But we'll get that for you.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

That would be wonderful. We'll put that over, too.

My next question is around the resources. Mr. Bloom, you said a minute ago that Mr. Trost wouldn't like your answer that everybody is responsible. And that's true. When everybody is responsible, you wonder who is responsible.

I guess this is a question for both people here today. What do you see as the major resource potential, in terms of what it means for potential resources and human resources that are going to be required to execute the potential resource development in the north? Who has a feel for the timeline as to when that will happen? And who has the lead on assessing the resources and human resources that are going to be required for that?

[Mitch Bloom]

I'll start off. It's a great question.

One of the things I've learned in resource development is that we don't control it. World markets and other factors also control it very much. You can get very excited about potentials and be excited for a very long time. It's not an easy process to simply match your labour market need against specific projects until they're actually operational and on the go. I think we had reference to Meadowbank a little bit earlier. That's a good example.

Ultimately the project proponents are the ones who best know the resource needs. If you're asking about specific projects, a project proponent will lay out exactly what is going to be needed in terms of labour market as the project is developed.

From the government's perspective, and certainly from our own perspective, it's important for us to be able to be part of that process. So we are watching, monitoring, and seeing where the gaps are. I used the example of literacy and numeracy a little bit earlier. It's an important gap. You can't work on a mine site if you can't read the safety sign.

I think the members of the committee know that the government made a significant announcement in the last budget around that. So the government is watching and trying to make sure that we're filling those kinds of gaps. I used the example of mine simulators. It's not easy to take people out of the community to provide them with the training they need in order to be able to work in that kind of situation. So again, government help steps in and works with the private sector and with territorial governments to try to provide the means to do that. But it's not an exact science.

[Janet King]

If I could step back to the early part of your question about the resource potential of the north, we are aware of a number of potential development projects. Mines are operating now. They continue to need capacity. Some are in the environmental assessment process, so they are on their way to a final decision, and some, we understand, will be proposed in the future. I speak to one in particular, which should be significant, the Mary River deposit in Baffin Island, which is a potentially significant resource development with the potential, again, to have a significant social impact requiring human resources.

I agree with Mitch's response on who leads. I would add a level. The communities, too, are deeply involved. The territorial governments in their respective responsibilities are deeply involved. We are interested parties and work within the federal role to support that as much as we can.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Allen. Your time is up.

We go now to Mr. Gravelle, and Madam Day, if there's time.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

I'd like to go back to the Ring of Fire for a minute, just to get a couple of clarifications.

Did INAC advise or resource CCAA on the aboriginal consultant obligations, and if so, what was the advice? If not, why not?

[Sara Filbee]

I don't know specifically with respect to that particular mine. I can get an answer for you. Consultation accommodation is handled in another part of the department, but I'm happy to get an answer for you.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Can we make sure she gets that answer for us?

My next question, again, is this. Did I understand your testimony earlier to say that if another arm of the government, like CEAA, was not following consultation obligations you would not intervene to fight for that?

[Sara Filbee]

The responsibility for consultation accommodation for governments lies with respect to those who are doing particular regulatory activity. If we're not doing that regulatory activity, our role is limited to advising on them. As I said, we're not the enforcers. There are a number of mechanisms for that, such as the courts and so on. That's not our role and not our mandate.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

If another arm of the government was violating the intent, you would not intervene? You would not advise?

[Sara Filbee]

Our role is to advise only, and the determination of the facts of a case as to whether something was being violated or missing or whatever is not our role at all.