Natural Resources Committee on April 18th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Anderson, you're out of time.

Let's go to Mr. Julian, who will be followed by Mr. Garneau and then Mr. Allen.

Go ahead, please, Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to get my head around the total trade supports on the ground. I know that we've talked about market diversification. It goes beyond energy resources. It goes to Canada's exports generally.

The integrated trade support fund is $3 million worldwide for all products, right? Are there any other funds that exist through International Trade to provide support for Canadian products beyond that integrated trade support fund?

[Carolyn Knobel]

Again, to clarify, that is a fund separate and apart from the salaries and budgets of the various posts and the work they do. The integrated trade strategic fund is, across sectors, a competitive fund. There is another fund within the Department of Foreign Affairs called the client service fund. Money is directed toward our posts abroad to support specific project initiatives. Both of those funds are project-based, as opposed to the ongoing good work of the various posts and missions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

A point of order, Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I don't mean to interrupt for more than a second here, but I'm not sure it's fair to our witness to ask her to know every trade promotional fund the Department of Foreign Affairs would have. That seems to be the direction of the questions over the last couple of—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

Of course, you can feel free at any time to say you don't have that information and leave it at that.

Go ahead, please, Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It is important, and I don't necessarily expect answers today, but on some of these questions—we have an esteemed panel in front of us—I'm sure they'll be able to get back to us. It's helpful when we talk about market diversification because a $3 million integrated trade support fund over 44 missions averages out, if you crunch the numbers, to about $186 a day per mission. Now $186 a day in product promotion in a market like France or Great Britain or Japan would be insufficient even for a hot dog stand. To say that we're trying to build an export strategy with $186 a day for product promotion astounds me.

Mr. Chair, as you know, it's very relevant, because Australia spends half a billion dollars doing what apparently we do with $186 a day for each mission. The European Community spends $125 million just for their wine industry alone in product promotion. If we're talking about market diversification, I think that's a very good starting point.

I think it's a valid question. I don't know, Ms. Knobel, if you have the amounts for the client service fund as well. That would be in addition to the integrated trade support fund. Do you have any sense of that, or could you get back to us on it?

[Carolyn Knobel]

I'll have to get back to you on that and on the breadth of promotion programs that may be out there beyond my experience.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

I think Mr. Labonté wanted to add something.

[Jeff Labonté]

In support of my colleague, I think there are quite a few other parts of the Government of Canada that provide trade promotions. There's the Export Development Corporation, the Canadian Commercial Corporation—there are other forums I think where you have a buyer and a seller working together and trying to make arrangements in which there's assistance offered by different federal agencies.

I expect the program she has mentioned is one, but I would think we might be able to do a bit more and provide you with some information on other agencies.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

My specific question was about product promotion, whether we're talking about energy products or other products. We're aware of other government agencies who provide support. The figures I just cited, the half billion dollars for Australia, the $125 million for the European Union.... The United States' product promotion just for the cattle industry is $60 million. Those are all product promotion funds.

That's really the intent of my question, to get to the bottom of product promotion beyond the trade commissioner network, which obviously is underfunded, as trade commissioners have told me repeatedly when I've gone around the world. They can't even buy a cup of coffee for a potential client of Canadian products or services. There's underfunding on that side. There's very clearly underfunding on product promotion. So when we talk about market diversification, that's a key starting point: what the government is not doing now.

Mr. Labonté, you talked a bit about expertise. We haven't gone too much into renewable energy and expertise. A lot of countries that have a very robust renewable energy strategy or a green energy strategy—Germany is one, with solar power. Denmark, with their extensive wind turbine research and development and production industry, has developed an expertise for export markets.

I'm wondering to what extent NRCan has a green energy export component strategy, based on expertise, or whether there's involvement for NRCan in green energy and export development even on the basis of studies or looking forward to the future—the provision or promotion of Canadian expertise.

[Jeff Labonté]

I'll ask my colleague from the electricity branch to respond.

[Jonathan Will]

Thank you for that question. Most of the support that Natural Resources Canada gives specifically towards renewable energy is through support to technology-demonstration projects, for example, integrating renewable intermittent wind and solar and other renewables into the grid. One of the major challenges for renewable power, especially non-traditional power such as wind and solar, is the fact that it's intermittent. So there's significant work being done on how to better integrate them, using smart-grid technologies in addition to looking at potential storage techniques.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

We go now to Mr. Garneau. Go ahead, please, for up to five minutes.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Does Canada export coal?

[Jeff Labonté]

Yes, Canada exports coal.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Can you give me an idea of how much?

[Jeff Labonté]

Thermal coal and meteorological coal are two different types. Meteorological coal is for steel production. It was about $6.8 billion in 2012.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Does Canada export coal only to the United States, or all over the world?

[Jeff Labonté]

All over the world. That said, the U.S. exports more coal than Canada.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Does the coal come mainly from Alberta?

[Jeff Labonté]

It comes from Alberta and British Columbia, but other parts of western Canada as well, in smaller amounts.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Okay.

Mr. Will, did I understand you to say that biomass was a non-emitting source of energy?

[Jonathan Will]

It's a renewable source.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Right. But it does emit. I assume it emits.